Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

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mcommini
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Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

Post by mcommini »

mcommini wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 09:09
Wosbald wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 07:39 +JMJ+

Seems like some Orthodox are always trying to find some elusive "crucial difference" from Catholicism.

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It's not all that difficult- all we have to is pick any random conciliar statement from Rome since sometime around 1054. :whistle:
To be less tongue in cheek: it's not that we're trying. I know outwardly we seem very similar and we share far more basic doctrines than we share with Protestants. But our communions have been separated for just shy of 1000 years. Those "basic doctrines" have been subject to Newman's beast in that time.

Laying aside the filioque question, we have diverged on doctrines such as the Essence/Energies distinction, purgatory, papal infallibility, mortal and venial sin, original sin, transubstantiation, the Immaculate Conception, the "indelibility" of priesthood, and we have never declared that any rite is verboten for translation into vernacular. That's all off the top of my head and without racking my brain.

I know a lot of Roman Catholics are hurt because your church teaches that (since the lifting of the anathemas and Vatican II) we are welcome at your table, yet ours does not reciprocate. But very real differences have developed between Rome and the East. We have no wish to try breathing with "two lungs" when one of those lungs is still, to all appearances, a collapsed lung.
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Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

Post by DLJake »

https://www.miamiarch.org/CatholicDiocese.php?op=Article_maronite-church-is-in-full-communion-with-pope wrote:The Maronite Church is one of 23 Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with the worldwide Catholic Church and recognizing Pope Francis as spiritual authority.

The Maronite Catholic Church is headquartered in Bkerke, Lebanon. It is one of the oldest traditions of the Catholic Church, born out of the Church of Antioch founded by St. Peter. Officially, it is known as the Syriac Maronite Church of Antioch.


If you get a chance to worship in this Eastern Catholic Liturgy, please join.

When they pray the "Our Father" it is done in Aramaic. The same tongue Jesus' would have used to teach it.
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Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
DLJake wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 18:19
https://www.miamiarch.org/CatholicDiocese.php?op=Article_maronite-church-is-in-full-communion-with-pope wrote:The Maronite Church is one of 23 Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with the worldwide Catholic Church and recognizing Pope Francis as spiritual authority.

The Maronite Catholic Church is headquartered in Bkerke, Lebanon. It is one of the oldest traditions of the Catholic Church, born out of the Church of Antioch founded by St. Peter. Officially, it is known as the Syriac Maronite Church of Antioch.


If you get a chance to worship in this Eastern Catholic Liturgy, please join.

When they pray the "Our Father" it is done in Aramaic. The same tongue Jesus' would have used to teach it.
I've worshiped with 'em. Interestingly, closer to the Latin Rite than most other Eastern Rites in many ways.

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mcommini
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Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

Post by mcommini »

Funnily enough, the parish I attend is Antiochian (Syrian) Orthodox- we have... interesting relationships with the Maronites. Melkites we get along with pretty ok- to the point of allowing Melkite Catholics in the Middle East to commune and otherwise receive the sacraments at one of our parishes if there is no Melkite parish available and vice versa (that is a strictly in the Middle East policy). Maronites, though....

Just for example, a Maronite/Syrian Orthodox street battle in 1905 Brooklyn, NY provides us with several contemporary news articles alleging that then Bishop, now (Orthodox) Saint, Raphael Hawaweeny brandished a gun at police officers pursuing him from the riot. I do not claim one way or the other that St Raphael did such a thing- but it goes to show just how much beef exists between the Maronites and Syrian Orthodox that St Raphael couldn't walk the two blocks, at midnight, to visit an injured parishioner without a gunfight breaking out.

This has nothing to do with the spirit of the thread (though being quite in keeping with the title of the thread. It's just a fun aside. That the Maronite/Syrian troubles has little to do with the religious difference is evidenced by the close relations of the Syrian Orthodox and the Melkites- I suspect it's more of a Syrian/Lebanese ethnic conflict.

Edit: Also, it should be noted, while I am a pledging member of an Antiochian Orthodox parish, I don't think we have a single Syrian member. Not uncommon in the American Archdiocese outside of major immigration hubs. My parish was founded in the 90s by a former Episcopalian priest and a very large portion of his formerly Episcopalian congregation. It was Western Rite for the first year or two.
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Post by DLJake »

Many moons ago I was able to worship Great Lent and Pascha with an Antiochian Church in Chambersburg, PA.

My love of the Eastern Church is born from those experiences.
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Post by Hugo Drax »

DLJake wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 20:47 Many moons ago I was able to worship Great Lent and Pascha with an Antiochian Church in Chambersburg, PA.

My love of the Eastern Church is born from those experiences.
Ever pull a gun on a cop?
Weenies are us.
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Post by DLJake »

Hugo Drax wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 20:48
DLJake wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 20:47 Many moons ago I was able to worship Great Lent and Pascha with an Antiochian Church in Chambersburg, PA.

My love of the Eastern Church is born from those experiences.
Ever pull a gun on a cop?
No.

I have had a Cop pull his gun on me.

I was not on my way home from Mass.
Nothing destroys cowboy boots faster than mare's urine. - JimVH as published in Equine Quarterly September 2022
mcommini
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Catholic vs Orthodox: Hell in the (Monastic) Cell

Post by mcommini »

DLJake wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 20:47 Many moons ago I was able to worship Great Lent and Pascha with an Antiochian Church in Chambersburg, PA.

My love of the Eastern Church is born from those experiences.
It is a sad fact that the few times I checked out a Roman Catholic Church I was confronted with Novus Ordo. My love of the Western Church is born from the Episcopalian High Mass- and the Anglican efforts at translating the Breviary. Good Lord, if only they could do theology as well as they do liturgy.

Edit: That isn't exactly true. My love of Western liturgy comes from the Anglican/Episcopalians. My love of the post-schism Western Church comes from Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas, Dante, Luther, Hooker, the people who translated the King James Version, Bunyan, Milton, Chesterton, Tolkien, Lewis, and Graham.
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