Euthanasia

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jmg
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Euthanasia

Post by jmg »

tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 06:11
jmg wrote: 18 Dec 2022, 16:50 ...the "health" worker had asked her that since her quality of life wasn't good, had she considered assisted suicide.

How terribly evil this all is!
This is essentially the exact same 'advice' we were given during the pregnancy with our daughter with spina bifida. During our meeting with the hospital's 'genetic counseling' the first question she asked was 'Will you be terminating the pregnancy?', the second question was 'Are you sure?'.
This makes my skin crawl, blood boil, and heart hurt.
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Post by tuttle »

jmg wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 07:24
tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 06:11
jmg wrote: 18 Dec 2022, 16:50 ...the "health" worker had asked her that since her quality of life wasn't good, had she considered assisted suicide.

How terribly evil this all is!
This is essentially the exact same 'advice' we were given during the pregnancy with our daughter with spina bifida. During our meeting with the hospital's 'genetic counseling' the first question she asked was 'Will you be terminating the pregnancy?', the second question was 'Are you sure?'.
This makes my skin crawl, blood boil, and heart hurt.
Here's the thing. The lady asking it was an older lady, wearing a flower patterned blouse, and when she asked it, she could have been reading a line. There was no real emotion or persuasion in her inflection.

But this was almost more creepy to me. That stoic remark was the voice of a bureaucratic sacrificial system. It was rote. Detached, even. How many people had she asked this question to who instantly responded in the affirmative? And as the first question, it set the tone. Everything explained about the difficult road ahead to two new scared parents was in light of that first question. We were resolute, but I couldn't help but think of so many people in our situation, hearing the same thing. I can imagine that for many the temptation to avoid the difficult road ahead by way of 'termination' might have been decided right there and then in a similar 'counseling' session.

But the woman was a cog in the machine. The 'counseling session' was a cog in the machine. If anyone had an issue with it, they'd be easily replaced as any wonky screw might be. I sense the same sort of bureaucratic aura with this Canadian euthanasia stuff. Business-like, hum-drum, bottom-dollar, all very pleasant and normal and just another Thursday, sort of air around it.
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jmg
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Euthanasia

Post by jmg »

tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 09:07
jmg wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 07:24
tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 06:11

This is essentially the exact same 'advice' we were given during the pregnancy with our daughter with spina bifida. During our meeting with the hospital's 'genetic counseling' the first question she asked was 'Will you be terminating the pregnancy?', the second question was 'Are you sure?'.
This makes my skin crawl, blood boil, and heart hurt.
Here's the thing. The lady asking it was an older lady, wearing a flower patterned blouse, and when she asked it, she could have been reading a line. There was no real emotion or persuasion in her inflection.

But this was almost more creepy to me. That stoic remark was the voice of a bureaucratic sacrificial system. It was rote. Detached, even. How many people had she asked this question to who instantly responded in the affirmative? And as the first question, it set the tone. Everything explained about the difficult road ahead to two new scared parents was in light of that first question. We were resolute, but I couldn't help but think of so many people in our situation, hearing the same thing. I can imagine that for many the temptation to avoid the difficult road ahead by way of 'termination' might have been decided right there and then in a similar 'counseling' session.

But the woman was a cog in the machine. The 'counseling session' was a cog in the machine. If anyone had an issue with it, they'd be easily replaced as any wonky screw might be. I sense the same sort of bureaucratic aura with this Canadian euthanasia stuff. Business-like, hum-drum, bottom-dollar, all very pleasant and normal and just another Thursday, sort of air around it.
The way you describe this eerily reminds me of the "unman" that Ransom battles with in Perelandra.
"When you're dumb, you've got to be tough." -My dad

"No reserves. No retreats. No regrets." -William Borden
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Euthanasia

Post by tuttle »

jmg wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 09:12
tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 09:07
jmg wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 07:24

This makes my skin crawl, blood boil, and heart hurt.
Here's the thing. The lady asking it was an older lady, wearing a flower patterned blouse, and when she asked it, she could have been reading a line. There was no real emotion or persuasion in her inflection.

But this was almost more creepy to me. That stoic remark was the voice of a bureaucratic sacrificial system. It was rote. Detached, even. How many people had she asked this question to who instantly responded in the affirmative? And as the first question, it set the tone. Everything explained about the difficult road ahead to two new scared parents was in light of that first question. We were resolute, but I couldn't help but think of so many people in our situation, hearing the same thing. I can imagine that for many the temptation to avoid the difficult road ahead by way of 'termination' might have been decided right there and then in a similar 'counseling' session.

But the woman was a cog in the machine. The 'counseling session' was a cog in the machine. If anyone had an issue with it, they'd be easily replaced as any wonky screw might be. I sense the same sort of bureaucratic aura with this Canadian euthanasia stuff. Business-like, hum-drum, bottom-dollar, all very pleasant and normal and just another Thursday, sort of air around it.
The way you describe this eerily reminds me of the "unman" that Ransom battles with in Perelandra.
It's not the first time I've thought of that.

Laying the abortion issue aside, after over a decade of dealing with children's hospitals (and working for a fortune 100 corporation) I've seen more than enough to convince me that there is a spiritual undercurrent running through bureaucracy (at least that's how I think of it, maybe a better term is out there). Even a thoroughgoing Materialist has to admit the de-humanizing of bureaucracy.

...I literally just wrote four paragraphs full of frustration trying to communicate just a tiny example. I re-read them and whoo boy I was ranting. So I deleted them. Let's just say I'm a little biased on this issue.
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Post by Hovannes »

The last dozen times I've been to the doctor's office I've been asked if I've ever contemplated suicide.
I generally reply one of two ways:
"How much are you planning on charging me?"
Or
"Is joe Biden still president?"
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Post by FredS »

tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 06:11
jmg wrote: 18 Dec 2022, 16:50 ...the "health" worker had asked her that since her quality of life wasn't good, had she considered assisted suicide.

How terribly evil this all is!
This is essentially the exact same 'advice' we were given during the pregnancy with our daughter with spina bifida. During our meeting with the hospital's 'genetic counseling' the first question she asked was 'Will you be terminating the pregnancy?', the second question was 'Are you sure?'.
Over lunch a couple years ago, my liberal Colorado sister in law told me she worried that people think she's pro-life because she and my brother chose to deliver a child with severe brain damage 20 years ago. Hillary has never spoke a word but she knows a bit of sign language and can walk with braces. She loves jazz, loud motorcycles, and simple flowery dresses. She'll never live on her own. So, even my super-liberal pro-choice SIL decided, when it came right down to it, that she didn't/doesn't/wont ever want to kill her child.
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Euthanasia

Post by Del »

FredS wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 13:00
tuttle wrote: 19 Dec 2022, 06:11
jmg wrote: 18 Dec 2022, 16:50 ...the "health" worker had asked her that since her quality of life wasn't good, had she considered assisted suicide.

How terribly evil this all is!
This is essentially the exact same 'advice' we were given during the pregnancy with our daughter with spina bifida. During our meeting with the hospital's 'genetic counseling' the first question she asked was 'Will you be terminating the pregnancy?', the second question was 'Are you sure?'.
Over lunch a couple years ago, my liberal Colorado sister in law told me she worried that people think she's pro-life because she and my brother chose to deliver a child with severe brain damage 20 years ago. Hillary has never spoke a word but she knows a bit of sign language and can walk with braces. She loves jazz, loud motorcycles, and simple flowery dresses. She'll never live on her own. So, even my super-liberal pro-choice SIL decided, when it came right down to it, that she didn't/doesn't/wont ever want to kill her child.
That a mother would choose not to kill her child -- that is the natural thing, and it should be the normal thing.

But our Culture of Death is so powerfully part of the Establishment now that the same mother is still afraid -- after 20 years of joyfully knowing her own daughter -- that strangers might suspect that she is "pro-life."
===================

Pushing euthanasia is the next evolution of our killing culture. Caring for elders is expensive and hard.

Transgender therapy/surgery is another symptom that a Culture of Death rules. Basically, it promises troubled young people the opportunity to kill this present uncomfortortable life so they can be reborn into a new life with a new identity.

The opiod epidemic and fentanyl are also related. A culture of young people looking to kill the day until the big day come.

And whether the "problem" is a baby, elders, adolescence, or a troubled life.... there's always someone looking to make a quick buck by offering a quick and easy way out of the "problem."
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+JMJ+

Canada’s euthanasia regime: How many more will die in the name of ‘compassion’? [Analysis, Opinion]

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A woman holds up a sign during a rally against assisted suicide in 2016 on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Ontario. (CNS photo/Art Babych)

Casual observers may understandably believe that the law the Canadian government euphemistically refers to as “medical assistance in dying,” or MAID, is reserved for patients who have a terminal diagnosis and are experiencing unbearable suffering. But they would be mistaken.

In August, The Associated Press reported the story of Alan Nichols, a 61-year-old man with a history of depression who in 2019 was briefly hospitalized because it was thought he might be suicidal. Within a month of his hospital stay, he requested euthanasia and was killed despite protests from family members, who said he was not taking his medications and did not have the capacity to make the decision to die. “His application for euthanasia listed only one health condition as the reason for his request to die,” The A.P. reported: “hearing loss.”

[…]

But it is not only people of faith who object to the expansion of this “right” to those who do not face imminent death. In 2021 three human rights experts from the United Nations sent a formal letter to the Canadian government warning that the move would “potentially subject persons with disabilities to discrimination on account of such disability.” Tim Stainton, the director of the Canadian Institute for Inclusion and Citizenship at the University of British Columbia, has called MAID “the biggest existential threat to disabled people since the Nazis’ program in Germany in the 1930s.”

Madeline Li, a psychiatrist who has administered euthanasia and helped shape MAID protocols in Toronto, has told lawmakers that given the lack of standards for assessing mentally ill patients for euthanasia, and indeed the impossibility of knowing whether a psychiatric diagnosis is irremediable, it will be up to doctors — with their unconscious biases and imperfect value judgments — to decide which lives are worth living.

As the disturbing case of Mr. Nichols demonstrates, we will not have to wait until March to see if the worst fears of those who have warned of euthanasia’s slippery slope will materialize. Already, doctors report hearing from low-income disabled or chronically ill patients who are seeking euthanasia because they cannot afford housing or adequate treatment with the social assistance they receive from the government. Patients with disabilities say that doctors have presented euthanasia as an option unprompted and in what can feel like a coercive manner, especially in the context of conversations about the cost of care. In all, 10,000 Canadians were euthanized in 2021, up from about 1,000 in 2016 and representing 3.3 percent of all deaths in the country that year.

There is a reason the Catholic Church often speaks of abortion and euthanasia together as life issues. Both are rooted in the same lie that human dignity is so conditioned upon personal autonomy that profound dependence on others for basic needs can make a life less valuable. The only way to make death “dignified” is to recognize the incalculable dignity of those who die by caring for their needs and accompanying them in their suffering. Every death, whether sudden or long expected, peaceful or accompanied by great suffering, is the end of a unique and precious life. It will come for us all, but, in the words of Pope Francis, “Life is a right, not death, which must be welcomed, not administered.”

As we have learned over the past year following the Supreme Court decision in the Dobbs case to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision, changing the law is only a first step and an insufficient response to the tragedy of abortion. The reason the language of “personal choice” is so effective, in debates over both abortion and euthanasia, is that millions of our brothers and sisters feel trapped by their circumstances or are experiencing inescapable suffering.

But if a mother feels she has no choice but to end the life of her unborn child, that is not freedom. It is a failure of family, friends, neighbors, government and society to give her and her child both the material and relational support they need. If people suffering with anorexia or deep depression, or if grandparents living in isolation and poverty believe the world would be better off without them, choosing to end their lives is not freedom. It is a manifestation of a throwaway culture that would rather discard those who suffer than accompany them. Such a choice aims more to avoid the need to face the reality of suffering ourselves than to offer mercy to others.

In Canada, where the cost of living is rising faster than welfare spending and the health care system has been crippled by the Covid-19 pandemic, some may be tempted to see euthanasia, like many things that come from the evil spirit, as a solution to a seemingly intractable problem — and thus be distracted from or ignore the harder task of investing in palliative care, affordable housing and the mental health care system. But no individual or society gets a free pass when it comes to caring for our fellow citizens, especially the most vulnerable among us. How high must the death toll rise before Canada reconsiders the cost of its so-called compassion?

If you are having thoughts of suicide, call the U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 (TALK) or Talk Suicide Canada at 1-833-456-4566.


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Post by tuttle »

True story. I recall the Kevorkian stuff hitting the news in the early 90s. I was probably like 10? (you guys are so old) and kept hearing euthanasia this and euthanasia that and Kevorkian was killing people. And I swear by JimVH's hat that this is true: for the longest time I assumed Jack Kevorkian was in trouble because he must have killed some young people while he was in Asia.
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Post by Del »

tuttle wrote: 20 Dec 2022, 06:58 True story. I recall the Kevorkian stuff hitting the news in the early 90s. I was probably like 10? (you guys are so old) and kept hearing euthanasia this and euthanasia that and Kevorkian was killing people. And I swear by JimVH's hat that this is true: for the longest time I assumed Jack Kevorkian was in trouble because he must have killed some young people while he was in Asia.
I know, right?

That could never happen here. This is America!
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