SOTU

[Del]

+JMJ+

When it comes to Universal Human Rights, there is no prioritization. Rather, they apply to all equally.

Otherwise, they're not Universal.

[…]

As a nation, the American government has the duty of care for Americans first.

[…]

That's the logic of Roe v. Wade.

Cuz the unborn are non-citizens and thus non-Americans, whereas the parents, being indeed Americans, get "prioritized".

The logic of Roe v Wade was that children in the womb are not "persons" protected by the Constitution, therefore no state could restrict abortion or protect pre-born children.

The logic of Dobbs is that pre-born children are still not "persons," but states can protect women and children from predatory abortion practices with legislation suitable to the voters of their states.

Biden's border policy is more like Roe v Wade. Biden says that migrants are not Americans, so he can't enforce laws regarding their entry across our borders. It is the right of the Mexican cartels and drug gangs to rape women, traffic children and fentanyl and terrorists, and extort desperate migrants for access to our open border.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

That's the logic of Roe v. Wade.

Cuz the unborn are non-citizens and thus non-Americans, whereas the parents, being indeed Americans, get "prioritized".

The logic of Roe v Wade was that children in the womb are not "persons" protected by the Constitution, therefore no state could restrict abortion or protect pre-born children.

[…]

Same diff.

Thanx for playing.

Let's give 'im a round of applause.

[SlowToke]

+JMJ+

… It's gaslighting patriotism and the idea that we should prioritize our own citizens first. …

When it comes to Universal Human Rights, there is no prioritization. Rather, they apply to all equally.

Otherwise, they're not Universal.

Would you starve your family to feed your neighbors? Would you give your vehicle to a stranger and not be able to drive to work? Like the airlines advise: "place your oxygen mask on before assisting your neighbor." As a whole, we are better able to assist the world when we are healthy and well.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

When it comes to Universal Human Rights, there is no prioritization. Rather, they apply to all equally.

Otherwise, they're not Universal.

… As a whole, we are better able to assist the world when we are healthy and well.

We don't need to assist people in some extraordinary, "going above-&-beyond" sense. It isn't a charity kind-of-thing.

Rather, we merely need to recognize their Rights. It's actually more of a "doing the bare minimum" kind-of-thing.

[Del]

+JMJ+

We don't need to assist people in some extraordinary, "going above-&-beyond" sense. It isn't a charity kind-of-thing.

Rather, we merely need to recognize their Rights. It's actually more of a "doing the bare minimum" kind-of-thing.

If you propose to start making sense, how about being clear about it?

Conservative voters are generally welcoming of immigrants and support a generous immigration policy. All we want is:

1) To know an approve of the incoming individuals, who are likely to embrace American values and contribute to the general welfare.
2) Policies that allow some sort of sponsorship, so immigrants can quickly become established in homes and jobs.
3) Security at our border, so illegal trafficking of criminal persons, drugs, and sex slaves is avoided.

Our current unsecured border is more unjust to both migrants and residents than ever before in history. Even Biden's bill to formally ignore illegal immigration would be a slight improvement, as inadequate as it is.

[SlowToke]

+JMJ+

When it comes to Universal Human Rights, there is no prioritization. Rather, they apply to all equally.

Otherwise, they're not Universal.

… As a whole, we are better able to assist the world when we are healthy and well.

We don't need to assist people in some extraordinary, "going above-&-beyond" sense. It isn't a charity kind-of-thing.

Rather, we merely need to recognize their Rights. It's actually more of a "doing the bare minimum" kind-of-thing.

I'm interpreting this as "good point, I see what your saying."

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

… As a whole, we are better able to assist the world when we are healthy and well.

We don't need to assist people in some extraordinary, "going above-&-beyond" sense. It isn't a charity kind-of-thing.

Rather, we merely need to recognize their Rights. It's actually more of a "doing the bare minimum" kind-of-thing.

I'm interpreting this as "good point, I see what your saying."

To some degree perhaps.

But maybe not exactly.

We don't have the option of violating Universal Human Rights (e.g. the Right to Migrate), regardless of how "unhealthy" we may be. There are certain minimum requirements that we must meet, regardless of how "unwell" we are.

But once we meet those bare minimum standards, then you are right: we might not be doing ourselves (or anyone else for that matter) any favors by giving away the farm.

[Del]

+JMJ+

I'm interpreting this as "good point, I see what your saying."

To some degree perhaps.

But maybe not exactly.

We don't have the option of violating Universal Human Rights (e.g. the Right to Migrate), regardless of how "unhealthy" we may be. There are certain minimum requirements that we must meet, regardless of how "unwell" we are.

But once we meet those bare minimum standards, then you are right: we might not be doing ourselves (or anyone else for that matter) any favors by giving away the farm.

You are starting to talk some sense. No "Universal Right" is one-sided. They always come with a "Universal Duty" and respect for the "Universal Rights" of others.

You have made it sound like you believe that any person has a "Universal Right to Migrate" at will. You sounded like you believe that if a homeless migrant desires to migrate into your home and do drugs in your living room, no one can deny him.

This is why we push back at your posts. Your one-sided moral view appeared to be insane.
=================================

Yes.... Peaceful People have the "right to migrate." (just saying the obvious -- criminals have abdicated their right to move about freely. don't be too universal with your Universals.)

This means that it is unjust to prevent people from leaving their unpleasant environment, such as North Korea does.

However, this does not mean that every safe and prosperous country must allow limitless hordes of unknown migrants to enter at will. Every nation has Universal Duty to secure the safety and prosperity of its citizens. This means that we must have an orderly immigration policy and a well-secured border.

The border crisis poses two vital problems that demand immediate fixing:
1) The epidemic of overdose deaths from drug trafficking across the open border: 300 deaths per day; 200 by fentanyl specifically (CDC numbers, 2022).
2) 8,500 unknown persons per day crossing illegally: Overwhelming our ability to place and care for those who are here to live and work peacefully. Plus a significant fraction who intend to expand criminal gang activity, terrorism, espionage, and child sex trafficking.

It's too late now for something like Trump's generous policy of "A Big, Beautiful Wall with a Big, Wide Door."

Our moral need is clear, if we have the will to moral leadership:

- We need to close the border entirely and turn everyone away until security and orderly procedures for entry are re-established. This will do much to stop the drug and sex trafficking.
- We need to process and assimilate those who are here as swiftly as we can (those 80,000 IRS agents should be re-purposed toward immigration work).
- We will need some sort of provisional amnesty and immediate work permits, so the illegals can provide for themselves as they desire.
- Those immigrants who are not disposed to settling down and living as peaceful Americans must be immediately deported.

This might take a couple of years, if we work diligently.

After that, we can we re-open a door for legal and orderly immigration, generously inviting migrants limited to numbers that we can handle -- with a priority on reuniting families.

This is our moral duty now. But our nation's leaders have no moral sense. Too many Americans have lost our moral sense.
======================================

Migrants want to come to America because we are the best country in the world. Our duty is to sustain this standard as best we can, and to welcome as many migrants as we can assimilate effectively.

And we certainly need immigrants. As a symptom of our loss of moral sense, Americans have stopped having enough kids to sustain our own culture.

[SlowToke]

I have a friend that is Mexican. He told me that most migrants from Mexico only come to America to earn US dollars but love Mexico. He told me about his uncle who works in America for 6 months and saves the money he earns to return to Mexico for 6 months to live off the money he makes in America. The cost of living is so low in Mexico the US dollar goes a very long way. Most are not seeking asylum. They are taking advantage of the differences in economies. Unfortunately they are spending the bulk of their income in Mexico which does nothing for the US economy. This is a true story. My friend has dual citizenship.

[Del]

I have a friend that is Mexican. He told me that most migrants from Mexico only come to America to earn US dollars but love Mexico. He told me about his uncle who works in America for 6 months and saves the money he earns to return to Mexico for 6 months to live off the money he makes in America. The cost of living is so low in Mexico the US dollar goes a very long way. Most are not seeking asylum. They are taking advantage of the differences in economies. Unfortunately they are spending the bulk of their income in Mexico which does nothing for the US economy. This is a true story. My friend has dual citizenship.

We should have no objection to legal migration or some sort of guest-worker policy. We need the workers; they love the jobs. We benefit from their legal labor and taxed income; they support their families.

It would be a different story if Americans had lots of kids who want to work, but we don't.

So we should be glad for a controlled solution that does not hand control of our border over to the drug cartels, endanger American cities, poison our kids, and create a slave class of families who are not permitted to legally work or support themselves.