Difficult Family

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sweetandsour
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Post by sweetandsour »

The Indians will not bother you now, on account of ... you are touched.
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Del
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Post by Del »

Thanks for this.
What’s helped me understand myself in relationship to other people is this: the beatitude of meekness. It is the ability to be both tender and mighty. It means I can sit with a person I know is carrying some type of dysfunction, without allowing that person to gaslight me, to manipulate me, to demean or belittle me.

I have learned to be gentle in my verbal expression of emotional boundaries: “Please stop saying that. It’s hurtful” or “I don’t appreciate being disrespected in that way.” Naturally, when I began setting boundaries, I received defensive responses. When you have been treated a certain way for so long and then gain agency over changing that dynamic, people closest to you will resist it.

But it is not Christian charity to become someone’s scapegoat, to be abused in any form by anyone. Believing this is one’s calling – to just put up with it silently – is a distorted perspective of love. I would go so far as to say that it is a form of false humility, in fact.
As our society and families are rapidly growing more dysfunctional, we need good spiritual advice on how to be loving without being victims or enablers.
Hugo Drax
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Post by Hugo Drax »

That was an excellent piece. When I was much younger, I heard a homily about offering the right cheek. Most men are right handed. If a right-handed man strikes you on the left cheek, you've been back-handed. Offering the right cheek, the story goes, simply means making the other man hit you like a man.

I took that message overboard for the next twenty or so years, as all of you observed, but I still think it's incredibly important to remember that meekness is strength. Meekness is politeness. Politeness is the effect of manners. Manners maketh man.

We were called to be meek but that doesn't mean you're a doormat!
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FredS
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Post by FredS »

I have learned to be gentle in my verbal expression of emotional boundaries: “Please stop saying that. It’s hurtful” or “I don’t appreciate being disrespected in that way.” Naturally, when I began setting boundaries, I received defensive responses. When you have been treated a certain way for so long and then gain agency over changing that dynamic, people closest to you will resist it.
I think it's generally easier for men to say “Please stop saying that. It’s hurtful” or “I don’t appreciate being disrespected in that way.” to family members. It's harder for women. At least in my family. *So, men, you may need to say it on your wife's behalf. Even if nothing changes, she'll know you're on her side.


*If you're the one saying hurtful or disrespectful things to your wife or any family member you need to STFU and take a long look inward.
If we ever get to heaven boys, it ain't because we ain't done nothin' wrong. - Kris Kristofferson
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Post by SlowToke »

I can relate. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Craig Thompson »

My understanding is that "meek" did not originally mean what we think it does today. A meek person was someone who had power over others but did not impose his/her wishes on on others. Humble is another word I have heard used to describe meek.

That is what one of my ministers preached anyway. Does anyone have other descriptions of "meek"?

Most of my life I have not understood the saying about the meek inheriting the earth. Until I heard that description of the word. After about 50 years of pondering that, now it makes sense to me.

Sorry if this is a tangent.
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Post by Hugo Drax »

Craig Thompson wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 06:02 My understanding is that "meek" did not originally mean what we think it does today. A meek person was someone who had power over others but did not impose his/her wishes on on others. Humble is another word I have heard used to describe meek.

That is what one of my ministers preached anyway. Does anyone have other descriptions of "meek"?

Most of my life I have not understood the saying about the meek inheriting the earth. Until I heard that description of the word. After about 50 years of pondering that, now it makes sense to me.

Sorry if this is a tangent.
Not a tangent at all. That's a meaningful insight.

I've always thought of meekness as a form of politeness/kindly firmness more than the abject acceptance of poor treatment advocated by some.

What your definition seems to imply is more of a "justness" concept. The rich man who isn't a prick about it and doesn't toady his superiors nor kick his inferiors, who always pays his men their wages and honors God , will inherit the earth. He's a just steward.

"Praüs" is the word used, and I'm told that means "gentle." It's all Greek to me.

I'm sorry, but I geek out on this stuff!
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FredS
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Post by FredS »

Hugo Drax wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 08:24
Craig Thompson wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 06:02 My understanding is that "meek" did not originally mean what we think it does today. A meek person was someone who had power over others but did not impose his/her wishes on on others. Humble is another word I have heard used to describe meek.

That is what one of my ministers preached anyway. Does anyone have other descriptions of "meek"?

Most of my life I have not understood the saying about the meek inheriting the earth. Until I heard that description of the word. After about 50 years of pondering that, now it makes sense to me.

Sorry if this is a tangent.
Not a tangent at all. That's a meaningful insight.

I've always thought of meekness as a form of politeness/kindly firmness more than the abject acceptance of poor treatment advocated by some.

What your definition seems to imply is more of a "justness" concept. The rich man who isn't a prick about it and doesn't toady his superiors nor kick his inferiors, who always pays his men their wages and honors God , will inherit the earth. He's a just steward.

"Praüs" is the word used, and I'm told that means "gentle." It's all Greek to me.

I'm sorry, but I geek out on this stuff!
The issue I see with these concepts of meekness is that they start with a position of power as their base. The just/fair/righteous application of power to be sure, but still a step above the peasant. If we accept that "the earth" the meek shall inherit is the new earth, with an abundance of peace, then the implication is that the fair superintendent has a larger stake than his underlings. Granted, Christ added eight other groups who would be blessed, so maybe that evens the bill.

1 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2 Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
3 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
4 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
5 Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 
6 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
7 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
8 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
9 Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account."
If we ever get to heaven boys, it ain't because we ain't done nothin' wrong. - Kris Kristofferson
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Post by Hugo Drax »

FredS wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 11:31
Hugo Drax wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 08:24
Craig Thompson wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 06:02 My understanding is that "meek" did not originally mean what we think it does today. A meek person was someone who had power over others but did not impose his/her wishes on on others. Humble is another word I have heard used to describe meek.

That is what one of my ministers preached anyway. Does anyone have other descriptions of "meek"?

Most of my life I have not understood the saying about the meek inheriting the earth. Until I heard that description of the word. After about 50 years of pondering that, now it makes sense to me.

Sorry if this is a tangent.
Not a tangent at all. That's a meaningful insight.

I've always thought of meekness as a form of politeness/kindly firmness more than the abject acceptance of poor treatment advocated by some.

What your definition seems to imply is more of a "justness" concept. The rich man who isn't a prick about it and doesn't toady his superiors nor kick his inferiors, who always pays his men their wages and honors God , will inherit the earth. He's a just steward.

"Praüs" is the word used, and I'm told that means "gentle." It's all Greek to me.

I'm sorry, but I geek out on this stuff!
The issue I see with these concepts of meekness is that they start with a position of power as their base. The just/fair/righteous application of power to be sure, but still a step above the peasant. If we accept that "the earth" the meek shall inherit is the new earth, with an abundance of peace, then the implication is that the fair superintendent has a larger stake than his underlings. Granted, Christ added eight other groups who would be blessed, so maybe that evens the bill.

1 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2 Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
3 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
4 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
5 Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 
6 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
7 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
8 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
9 Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account."
Yeah, I can get that. One thing that bears rememberkng is that Christ was speaking pre-crucifixion and therefore the Law was still in place, but if "praüs" literally translates to "gentle," then the quality of gentle leadership is hardly the prerogative of the rich.

The average man is always in charge of leading somebody, even if it is only his own wife and children. Ancient Israel was a land of slaves, too, and it's hard for us to comprehend how prevalent slavery truly was.

To me, the Beatitudes define "meek." In other words, to be meek, one must be poor in spirit, mournful, a seeker of righteousness, etc.

Thanks for an interesting mental exercise. May we all find out what it actually means!
Weenies are us.
Hugo Drax
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Post by Hugo Drax »

Speaking of that article, and meekness, and difficult family, and practicing the beatitudes...my mother-in-law arrived last night for a two week stay in my house.

There are five women in there right now. Five. I don't care how cold it is out here, this pipeful of kendal cream flake is keeping me quite nicely warm!
Weenies are us.
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