Elon and free speech

[Del]

This just in: MSNBC reports there's no such thing as treason really. It's just a far right MAGA racist conspiracy theory. It never did exist to begin with.

It's difficult to tell the difference between actual treason and good, old-fashioned political corruption.

Democrats were calling on Facebook and Twitter, asking them to suppress news stories to influence and turn elections.

We should figure out what sort of value those in-kind services were worth and prosecute the offending Democrats for soliciting illegal bribes.

Similar treatment for elected Democrats who used IRS, FBI, and DOJ to terrorize their political opponents and pro-life activists.

This new sort of Party Machine corruption needs to be prosecuted, just as the old-style patronage abuses were suppressed for a time by the prosecutions of Boss Tweed (NY, 1870's) and Tom Pendergast (Kansas City, 1930's). I'm not sure exactly what crimes can be charged, though. This type of corruption is so new.

[FredS]

From what I see on CPS, it seems the Trumper's and Musker's are in the same deplorable basket, hoping one of those rotten guys will lead us to the promised land. Sure, Trump was better for my retirement account than Uncle Joe has been. And Musk is better for Twitter I suppose - though I don't use that platform so I'm going with what I hear from others. But neither billionaire seems to have my best interests at heart except where their interests accidentally align with mine.

[Del]

From what I see on CPS, it seems the Trumper's and Musker's are in the same deplorable basket, hoping one of those rotten guys will lead us to the promised land. Sure, Trump was better for my retirement account than Uncle Hoe has been. And Musk is better for Twitter I suppose - though I don't use that platform so I'm going with what I hear from others. But neither billionaire seems to have my best interests at heart except where their interests accidentally align with mine.

Hmmm.... I don't think it is fair to say that Trump and Musk were motivated by entirely by self-interest, causing us to benefit by dumb-luck coincidence. Both characters had a vision of what we want done, and took steps to deliver because we wanted it. They set themselves up such that the only way they win is if we all win.

President Trump won a lot of hearts because he really had our best interests in the top of his mind. Bringing back great jobs (especially for union miners and factory workers). Putting great judges into our courts, who respect our Constitution above any particular agenda. Setting our foreign policy upright.... America is the leader of the free world, whether we like it or not. There can't be world peace if America doesn't shoulder the responsibility of leadership. That's what we wanted as voters, and Trump delivered.

Then there is Former President Trump -- and that character seems to be solely motivated in restoring his personal reputation, glory, and extracting some personal vengeance. Republican voters quickly figured out that he isn't fighting for us anymore. Recent headlines in right-wing news suggest that he couldn't even beat Biden in a fair fight.
Daily Wire: Trump Drops To 3rd In Betting Odds For 2024, Now Trails Biden

Musk is running a huge bet that people feel a need for unthrottled free speech and access to unfiltered news. Like any good capitalist, he reckons to make a buck by giving people what we want.

Musk also appears to have a streak of altruism in wanting to open up Twitter. He never cared about Democrats or Republicans.... until the Democrats and their allies came gunning for him for trying to do the right thing. Now he has enemies to fight against.

[FredS]

My point was not that either man is a failure. My point is that many of their fans wear blinders and fall to their knees when their names are mentioned. Neither of these guys will unite our country and neither are saviors.

[tuttle]

Elon and Trump are monkeywrenches. Their bank accounts allowed them to separate from the System without succumbing to the System, which is something even average rich people can't do.

Insofar as they gum up the works, I'm for it. I don't think either are paragons of freedom and conservative principles, and had they their full and final way in everything I think they'd create a nice little hellscape here on earth. But they have been very very useful tools against a Machine that folks like you and I have no real ability to stop. If they're able to blast a large hole in the wall, creating room for people like us to break through, they'll receive my support.

[FredS]

Thanks for clarifying your positions guys. Perhaps I'm incorrectly seeing your support of what these bozos are doing as adoration of the men themselves. It's not easy for me to decouple the actions from the actors, but I do agree that a couple rich guys giving the finger to the man is a good thing.

William F Buckley (my conservative hero) started a magazine in 1955 named National Review and said their mission was to:
"Stand athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it… it is out of place because, in its maturity, literate America rejected conservatism in favor of radical social experimentation…since ideas rule the world, the ideologues, having won over the intellectual class, simply walked in and started to…run just about everything. There never was an age of conformity quite like this one, or a camaraderie quite like the Liberals."

So yeah, I like conservatives with money and a platform who yell "STOP" to liberal ideas. I don't like people I think are doing it primarily for their gain (either financially or egotistically) acting as if they're doing for me. Virtue signaling is not only an act of the left, after all.

[Del]

Thanks for clarifying your positions guys. Perhaps I'm incorrectly seeing your support of what these bozos are doing as adoration of the men themselves. It's not easy for me to decouple the actions from the actors, but I do agree that a couple rich guys giving the finger to the man is a good thing.

I'm with tuttle. Plenty of people cheering for the changes that Musk and Trump have effected, disrupting an oppressive status quo. But conservative political fans are fickle, always ready to cheer for the next guy (DeSantis?) who looks to move the ball down the field for us.

DeSantis is a phenomenon. I'm old enough to remember Lyndon Johnson.... DeSantis is the first time I have seen political mobs clamoring for a guy to run before he has ever hinted that he aspires to.

In Nov. 2018, he barely squeaked out a victory as governor of Florida. His accomplishments since then have former Trump fans begging for him to lead us.

[tuttle]

Thanks for clarifying your positions guys. Perhaps I'm incorrectly seeing your support of what these bozos are doing as adoration of the men themselves. It's not easy for me to decouple the actions from the actors, but I do agree that a couple rich guys giving the finger to the man is a good thing.

William F Buckley (my conservative hero) started a magazine in 1955 named National Review and said their mission was to:
"Stand athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it… it is out of place because, in its maturity, literate America rejected conservatism in favor of radical social experimentation…since ideas rule the world, the ideologues, having won over the intellectual class, simply walked in and started to…run just about everything. There never was an age of conformity quite like this one, or a camaraderie quite like the Liberals."

So yeah, I like conservatives with money and a platform who yell "STOP" to liberal ideas. I don't like people I think are doing it primarily for their gain (either financially or egotistically) acting as if they're doing for me. Virtue signaling is not only an act of the left, after all.

I look at Trump (and to a degree Musk) a bit like the new Jurassic Park series uses the T-Rex. Hey things are going to hell. Everything we've tried to do on our end has failed (be it our own fault or sabotage), so lets unleash the Rex who, while left to his own devices makes me rather not be near him at all, but in this context will actually be able to fight this thing, or at the very least buy us some time. The other analogy is Trump is chemo. He's a poison you put in your system to fight the cancer. Both are killing you but one just may take out the other with enough time to spare. Of course too much poison can kill you too, but we're in stage 4 here.

All that said, barring something major (and I mean ground shifting major) happening, I don't think the republicans will win another key election, Walker will lose in GA today and Biden or his ghost will beat DeSantis in '24. I'll be honest, election rule changes as a result of COVID have fundamentally changed the game from here on out. Easier to cheat and hide and no ramifications.

[gaining_age]

Jim Baker, evidently, the counsel for FBI -- was on Twitter staff and "assisting" with providing the twitter files for the "media" on the topic of Hunter Biden laptop.... some sanitizing may have occurred. Elon has had Jim Baker walked from the building.. no longer at Twitter.


That seems... beneficial to avoid potential conflict of interest.

[SlowToke]

Elon and Trump are monkeywrenches. Their bank accounts allowed them to separate from the System without succumbing to the System, which is something even average rich people can't do.

Insofar as they gum up the works, I'm for it. I don't think either are paragons of freedom and conservative principles, and had they their full and final way in everything I think they'd create a nice little hellscape here on earth. But they have been very very useful tools against a Machine that folks like you and I have no real ability to stop. If they're able to blast a large hole in the wall, creating room for people like us to break through, they'll receive my support.

This times a billion. The wealthy elite ruling class of the world know and have privy to things we don't. I don't idolize any of them. To me, they are useful pawns just like they treat us. It's a very common misconception of the left to think support equals adoration or worship. That's what the mainstream media wants and tells you to believe. It most certainly is not.