The Pope Francis Thread

[Hugo Drax]

Lol. It is Stockholm syndrome.

Give me a break.

My first principle is that I do not trust the American media. We have been fed a steady drumbeat of "Look! Your Pope Francis supports all of our leftist agenda!" The spin is often obvious, as in this CRUX article. Their goals are to advance their leftist policies and to foment factions of faithful Catholics into opposition.

Likewise, the CNA story reports that Fr. Tait was promoted to a worthy position, and then the promotion was withdrawn. The article pivots on his having celebrated the Latin Mass on a few special occasions and blames Francis himself for the demotion, with no facts to link any of that together. Buried deep in the article was the known fact that Fr. Tait was already scheduled to return to Madison in a few months.

So I play a game of looking at the facts with a plausible explanation that un-spins the buried agenda of the media. Go ahead and sue me.

My working opinion on Francis is that he is a shallow guy who doesn't look too deeply into any issues before he speaks. I am not persuaded that he has a deep agenda of his own to press. This creates an environment where sinister folks in the shadows (of the media and the Vatican) can assert their agendas.

The biggest hole in my working theory regards Francis's choices for assignments of bishops and cardinals. I'm not encouraged by his actions here.

I am doing more than giving you a break, Del. I'm absolving you of responsibility. You're the victim in this scenario.

[Del]

Lol. It is Stockholm syndrome.

Give me a break.

I am doing more than giving you a break, Del. I'm absolving you of responsibility. You're the victim in this scenario.

And afflicted with Stockholm syndrome. Got it.

[Hugo Drax]

Give me a break.

I am doing more than giving you a break, Del. I'm absolving you of responsibility. You're the victim in this scenario.

And afflicted with Stockholm syndrome. Got it.

Yeah, but it's not meant as an insult. I think I am, too, if it's any consolation. I've made my share of excuses for him over the years.

[gaining_age]

You silly! We have no difficulty discerning brandy and whiskey. That's why we like brandy.

Either you forgot a capital letter and are far younger than our early Covid Zoom gatherings led me to believe, or that last sentence makes no sense. What next? A vodka martini is superior to gin?

Yes. Yes. This is righteous. No more brother wars. It's time for the great Kangaroo vs Martini Battle Royale of 2022.

I have a neutral take on grain spirits. Both iterations have their place, but only one is a martini. Discuss.

I'm finally getting a glimpse of understanding Bourbon and Whiskey.... and the discussion is round about here? I have got to dive into more threads...

[Del]

Either you forgot a capital letter and are far younger than our early Covid Zoom gatherings led me to believe, or that last sentence makes no sense. What next? A vodka martini is superior to gin?

Yes. Yes. This is righteous. No more brother wars. It's time for the great Kangaroo vs Martini Battle Royale of 2022.

I have a neutral take on grain spirits. Both iterations have their place, but only one is a martini. Discuss.

I'm finally getting a glimpse of understanding Bourbon and Whiskey.... and the discussion is round about here? I have got to dive into more threads...

Well, Pope Francis doesn't do every day. And we gotta keep busy, y'know.

Hugo D. is busting on me because he knows that we like to drink a lot in Wisconsin. And we drink a lot of brandy. The Korbel vineyards in California distill a lot of brandy, and they sell over half of it in Wisconsin. Hugo enjoys the quaint customs of what he considers to be an inferior race, or something.

In Wisconsin, brandy is our everyday booze for mix-it-with-whatever. Every day.

Anyhow, buy some Korbel and try our signature cocktail, the Wisconsin Brandy Old Fashioned. We drink a lot of these.

Everybody makes it like Charlie Berens here.... I use simple syrup instead of a sugar cube, but just get some sugar in there.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Pope: Antisemitism shows need for Christian–Jewish understanding

Pope Francis greets Cardinal Kurt Koch, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, during an audience with members of Amitié Judéo–Chrétienne de France, a Jewish–Christian dialogue organization founded in France in 1948, at the Vatican Dec. 12, 2022. (CNS photo/Vatican Media)

VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Decrying what he described as "hostile times" when antisemitism and violence against Christians are on the rise, Pope Francis said a renewed commitment to Catholic–Jewish dialogue is needed.

"The path we have traveled together is considerable," but the work clearly is not done, the pope told members of the Amitié Judéo–Chrétienne de France, a dialogue and education group founded in 1948 by Jules Isaac, a French historian who worked to improve Christian–Jewish relations after World War II and met with Popes Pius XII and John XXIII.

"We must give thanks to God" for the progress, the pope said, especially "given the weight of mutual prejudices and the sometimes-painful history that must be acknowledged."

"The task is not finished, and I encourage you to persevere on the path of dialogue, fraternity and joint initiatives," the pope said. "This beautiful work, which consists in creating bonds, is fragile, always to be resumed and consolidated, especially in these hostile times in which attitudes of closure and rejection of the other are becoming more numerous, including with the worrying reappearance of antisemitism, particularly in Europe, and of violence against Christians."

Pope Francis praised Isaac and, particularly, his work at the 1947 Seelisberg Conference of the International Council of Christians and Jews, which came up with a 10-point list of facts Christians must keep in mind when speaking with or about their Jewish brothers and sisters. They begin with the affirmation that there is one God who "speaks to us all through the Old and the New Testaments" and with the fact that Jesus, his mother and his disciples all were Jews.

Many of the points later were incorporated into the Second Vatican Council document Nostra Aetate on relations with the Jews, Muslims and other non-Christians, Pope Francis noted.

Thanking the French group for its "untiring" work, the pope said members had helped "Jews and Christians rediscover themselves as brothers and sisters, children of the same father."

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

Papal message for World Peace Day: War, hunger, turmoil are connected

Salesian Sr. Alessandra Smerilli, secretary of the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development, speaks at a news conference for the release of Pope Francis' message for the Jan. 1 celebration of World Peace Day, at the Vatican Dec. 16, 2022. Looking on is Cardinal Michael Czerny, prefect of the same dicastery. (CNS photo/Cindy Wooden)

The interconnected "moral, social, political and economic crises" facing the world cannot be solved if individuals and nations continue to focus only on their own, immediate interests, Pope Francis said in his message for World Peace Day 2023.

"The time has come for all of us to endeavor to heal our society and our planet, to lay the foundations for a more just and peaceful world, and to commit ourselves seriously to pursuing a good that is truly common," the pope wrote in the message, which was released at the Vatican Dec. 16.

The Catholic Church celebrates World Peace Day Jan. 1 and distributes the pope's message to heads of state and government around the world. Francis personally gives signed copies of it to visiting leaders throughout the year.

The theme for the pope's 2023 message was "No one can be saved alone," and the text urged people to learn from the experience of the global effort to combat COVID-19 and to recognize the poverty and inequalities the pandemic laid bare, especially as regards to access to food, medicine, health care, education and technology.

Francis asked people to reflect on a series of questions: "What did we learn from the pandemic? What new paths should we follow to cast off the shackles of our old habits, to be better prepared, to dare new things? What signs of life and hope can we see, to help us move forward and try to make our world a better place?"

As soon as it seemed the pandemic was nearly over, the pope wrote, "a terrible new disaster befell humanity. We witnessed the onslaught of another scourge: another war."

[…]

"This war, together with all the other conflicts around the globe, represents a setback for the whole of humanity and not merely for the parties directly involved," the pope said.

Massive cooperative efforts led to vaccines for COVID-19, he said, but "suitable solutions have not yet been found for the war," even though it is true "the virus of war is more difficult to overcome than the viruses that compromise our bodies, because it comes, not from outside of us, but from within the human heart corrupted by sin."

Canadian Cardinal Michael Czerny, prefect of the Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development, presented the message at a news conference and spoke to Catholic News Service afterward.

"The message gives me hope because it puts a finger on not what some important person needs to do but what each of us needs to do, which is just to take the time to ask ourselves, 'What did I learn or not learn? And how is my life going to change from there?" the cardinal said. "Hopefully, the lessons will be for the good of everyone."

People's experience of the pandemic, the lockdowns, the possibility of continuing to work and the scrambling for vaccines were different around the world, he said, but that experience loses its power if people do not reflect on it and share it.

Francis' message, he said, is a reminder "that we are too quick to forget" and then humanity is forced to move on to the next disaster without having made changes to alleviate suffering.

Salesian Sr. Alessandra Smerilli, secretary of the dicastery, told reporters the pope was asking people "to return for a moment to those frightening, difficult and painful moments" at the beginning of the pandemic in early 2020. "This is time to ask ourselves whether, as individuals and a community, are we better or worse off three years later?"

The reflection, Francis wrote, should encourage people to change from a self-centered focus to a real commitment to the common good and to promoting solidarity and a greater sense of fraternity.

Cooperative efforts are needed to ensure health care for all and to "put an end to the conflicts and wars that continue to spawn poverty and death," he said. People must work together to combat climate change, overcome inequality, end hunger and create dignified work for all.

"We also need to develop suitable policies for welcoming and integrating migrants and those whom our societies discard," the pope said. "Only by responding generously to these situations, with an altruism inspired by God's infinite and merciful love, will we be able to build a new world and contribute to the extension of his kingdom, which is a kingdom of love, justice and peace."

[Hovannes]

This is troubling:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/vatican-k ... unications

Is it true? I haven't read about it on any other channels so I hope not.

Having personally met both Fr Pavone and Archbishop Vigano I'm beginning to wonder if I'm a papal jinx?

[Del]

This is troubling:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/vatican-k ... unications

Is it true? I haven't read about it on any other channels so I hope not.

Having personally met both Fr Pavone and Archbishop Vigano I'm beginning to wonder if I'm a papal jinx?

Probably not you....



Reviewing Fr. Pavone's life and work.... I had forgotten how much he has done to fight abortion and euthanasia.
Wikipedia makes the same assertion as FOX News -- that Pope Francis had personally directed Fr. Pavone's laicization. Neither source reports whether legal canonical processes (trial) were followed, which looks more than a little sketchy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Pavone

There are canonical arguments as to why a Catholic priest should not be too closely associated with secular political work. It gets messy.
Has Francis laicized any of the priests who are deeply involved pressing "gay rights" into political action and Church activity? I can think of a few names.

[Hovannes]

I wonder if Francis was rooting for Argentina during the World Cup?