Faith in the news

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FredS
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Post by FredS »

I haven't looked into the organization producing those ads. I don't care to. This particular message makes a point that's apropos to recent posts in this thread, no matter who or what is behind it.

"Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comforted." Was it Jesus or Banksy who said that?
If we ever get to heaven boys, it ain't because we ain't done nothin' wrong. - Kris Kristofferson
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Post by FredS »

But really . . .

What was His purpose for delivering the Christ to a poor, displaced, family? The One that all history has looked to - both before and after that birth in a barn. Why do it in that exact fashion? If it's simply because it was foretold, then why was it foretold?
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Post by Hovannes »

I've seen those ads as well.
They are a good reminder that we're dealing with an elephant of an issue-
Some look only at the tusk, others look only at the tail and others look at the trunk.
It's far more complicated than that.
And far more complicated than those ads portend.

Consider a nation with a rich culture and social order.
It is invaded from overseas by a huge mass of good intentioned people escaping tyranny and poverty crossing the border in droves looking for a better life
With them comes criminals, gangs, drugs and disease, slavery, murder, lawlessness, and squandering of resources needed to sustain life.
The rich culture and social order are destroyed as the nation is overwhelmed by violence as the invaders take control by military actions and the threat of military actions. The society that once was is now a dusty footnote in History books and little else.
Isn't that the story of First Nations? That's just one part of the elephant.

The rules by which the government plays is destructive to families, not only to US families who have to deal with fentanyl deaths, but just as important migrant families who are separated by the coyotes for nefarious reasons
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/bl ... nt-to-u-s/
Yet another part of this elephant.

There are many many more parts to this elephant that we need to consider and which the ad, in it's simplicity, ignores.
No solution is going to be simple, but the start to finding a solution can be simple.
Biden won't do it.
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Wosbald
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 07:39 I've seen those ads as well.
They are a good reminder that we're dealing with an elephant of an issue-
Some look only at the tusk, others look only at the tail and others look at the trunk.
It's far more complicated than that.
And far more complicated than those ads portend.

Consider a nation with …

[…]

There are many many more parts to this elephant that we need to consider and which the ad, in it's simplicity, ignores.

[…]
There are always complications. To prove that, one merely has to look at all the complications clustered around the issue of Pregnancy.

OTOH, there are — like the Right to Migrate and the Right to Life — the "simple truths".

So even though Pro-Life adverts have been talking about the simple truths and ignoring the "many many more parts to the the elephant" for a solid 50 years, this is exactly what one would expect when laser-focusing on the simple truths.

That's why nations have to Rightly Divide the Word so that the complications don't obscure the simple truths and vice versa.

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Post by Hovannes »

Wosbald wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 09:40 +JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 07:39 I've seen those ads as well.
They are a good reminder that we're dealing with an elephant of an issue-
Some look only at the tusk, others look only at the tail and others look at the trunk.
It's far more complicated than that.
And far more complicated than those ads portend.

Consider a nation with …

[…]

There are many many more parts to this elephant that we need to consider and which the ad, in it's simplicity, ignores.

[…]
There are always complications. To prove that, one merely has to look at all the complications clustered around the issue of Pregnancy.

OTOH, there are — like the Right to Migrate and the Right to Life — the "simple truths".

So even though Pro-Life adverts have been talking about the simple truths and ignoring the "many many more parts to the the elephant" for a solid 50 years, this is exactly what one would expect when laser-focusing on the simple truths.

That's why nations have to Rightly Divide the Word so that the complications don't obscure the simple truths and vice versa.

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It all depends on who is doing the dying and who is doing the killing, doesn't it?
And who is going to show up 100-200 years later for a photo op to apologize for the bad stuff to make with the virtue signaling.
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Post by Hovannes »

From the History Channel:
" In 1851, while Geronimo and several other warriors were in the town of Janos on a trading mission, Colonel Jose Maria Carrasco and a detachment of around 400 Mexican soldiers ransacked his Bedonkohe encampment and slaughtered many of its inhabitants. When Geronimo returned later that night, he found that his mother, his wife and his three young children had all been murdered. “I had lost all,” he said in his autobiography. Following the massacre, Geronimo swore vengeance against Mexico and led a series of bloody raids on its soldiers and settlements.”

Keep in mind, the Mexicans were regarded as the illegal migrants by the Chiricahua Apache Nation.
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Wosbald
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 09:57
Wosbald wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 09:40
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 07:39 I've seen those ads as well.
They are a good reminder that we're dealing with an elephant of an issue-
Some look only at the tusk, others look only at the tail and others look at the trunk.
It's far more complicated than that.
And far more complicated than those ads portend.

Consider a nation with …

[…]

There are many many more parts to this elephant that we need to consider and which the ad, in it's simplicity, ignores.

[…]
There are always complications. To prove that, one merely has to look at all the complications clustered around the issue of Pregnancy.

OTOH, there are — like the Right to Migrate and the Right to Life — the "simple truths".

So even though Pro-Life adverts have been talking about the simple truths and ignoring the "many many more parts to the elephant" for a solid 50 years, this is exactly what one would expect when laser-focusing on the simple truths.

That's why nations have to Rightly Divide the Word so that the complications don't obscure the simple truths and vice versa.

Image
It all depends on who is doing the dying and who is doing the killing, doesn't it?

[…]
No, it does not. Universal Human Rights are not "respecters of persons". Rather, they apply to all, equally. That's what makes them Universal.

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Post by Hovannes »

Wosbald wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 08:52 +JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 09:57
It all depends on who is doing the dying and who is doing the killing, doesn't it?

[…]
No, it does not. Universal Human Rights are not "respecters of persons". Rather, they apply to all, equally. That's what makes them Universal.
OK I'm trying to understand this as it pertains to current affairs.
Universal Human Rights are not respecters of persons.
Migrants are persons and they aren't respected.
Migrants are being trafficked and forced into indentured service by cartels who bring fentanyl, which kills when cut with other pharmaceuticals.
Citizens of the country they are being trafficked too aren't being respected because the laws which provide for safe and orderly passage are not enforced in order that migrants and drugs can continue to be trafficked unfettered.
Also the expense of providing services to migrants are being extorted from citizens, not voluntarily provided out of love for our fellows
So "Universal Human Rights are not respecters of persons" does apply to all.
So I have to ask, is that the divine objective?
Aquinas wouldn't have agreed.
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 19:22
Wosbald wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 08:52
Hovannes wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 09:57 It all depends on who is doing the dying and who is doing the killing, doesn't it?

[…]
No, it does not. Universal Human Rights are not "respecters of persons". Rather, they apply to all, equally. That's what makes them Universal.

Image
OK I'm trying to understand this as it pertains to current affairs.
Universal Human Rights are not respecters of persons.

[…]

So I have to ask, is that the divine objective?
Aquinas wouldn't have agreed.
The "Divine Objective" is that Universal Human Rights are not violated. This pertains as much to the Right to Migrate as to the Right to Life.

The myriad ways that said Rights "pertain to current affairs" (i.e. the way they are practically applied) can only be adequately worked-out in an environment where said Rights have been first recognized and secured.

It's really just that simple.

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Post by FredS »

I'm with Wos -
Of course there are complications and things are messy out here in the real world, but if we keep our eyes on the ideal - that God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them - then we have a better chance of working through the messy details.

Desmond Tutu told us how to eat that elephant. One bite at a time.

We know generally what we need to do at our southern border. Hire 10,000 more immigration officials. Or 50,000. Whatever. Station them in Mexico. Process 10,000 immigrants every day. Let them in legally or send them packing. The 'good' migrants will work through the system quickly and safely. The 'bad' ones will sneak through the desert and, since they will be much fewer in number, they'll be easier to pick up. Build a few new prisons in Mexico to put the bad actors in. Boom - ten, twenty, fifty, or a hundred billion dollars, and the problem is solved in a few years.
If we ever get to heaven boys, it ain't because we ain't done nothin' wrong. - Kris Kristofferson
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