The Pope Francis Thread

[Hovannes]

But there are not going to be ceremonies, in a Church, with tuxedos and costume dresses and invited guests and cake, to especially bless aberrant sorts of life-partnerships.

Keeping in mind all the liturgical abuses done by clergy (Clown Masses, Pachamama, liturgical dancers and the rest) this isn't something I'd bet money on.
Just sayin'

[Del]

But there are not going to be ceremonies, in a Church, with tuxedos and costume dresses and invited guests and cake, to especially bless aberrant sorts of life-partnerships.

Keeping in mind all the liturgical abuses done by clergy (Clown Masses, Pachamama, liturgical dancers and the rest) this isn't something I'd bet money on.
Just sayin'

Agree. Those who want to be disobedient to God and His Church will still find ways to do so.

[Del]

Some good news!


Pope Says Blessings For Individuals In Same-Sex Relationships Cannot Resemble Marriage Brief, Direct, To-the-Point, Honest

Couples in “irregular situations,” including same-sex relationships, can receive blessings that do not “sanction or legitimize” their unions, the Vatican’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, which exists to defend Catholic doctrine, clarified in a document published Monday.

The document, called “Fiducia Supplicans,” was signed by Pope Francis as well as the Dicastery’s new prefect, Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández.
Priests can give people in same-sex couples a “spontaneous blessing,” but the blessing cannot be a “liturgical” act or resemble the sacrament of marriage, the document says.

Basically, a priest can give a blessing as he normally would to anyone who asks for it.

But there are not going to be ceremonies, in a Church, with tuxedos and costume dresses and invited guests and cake, to especially bless aberrant sorts of life-partnerships.

Kudos to Pope Francis for finally giving us a clearly definite and faithful answer on something.

“Irregular situations”? Why is he not calling this what is is? A sinful relationship. Del, I am not at all poking at you about this. I respect the hell out of you. But I seriously thought you would condemn this situation. So, my question is this…why are you not in disagreement with this statement? What would it take for you to condemn it? Would he have to fully endorse homosexual relationships? Sanction them as equal to a marriage between a woman and a man? I ask from a place of genuinely not understanding this. Why is it alright to bless something that God clearly calls sin and an abomination?

The instruction is very clear that the "union of a same-sex couple" cannot be blessed.

But messed-up people can ask for blessings. "Can I have a blessing, Father? I'm trying to live sober, but I haven't been very good about it."

"Irregular situations" include gay couples, unmarried couples who are living together, couples who have "remarried" after a divorce, and couples engaged in an adulterous affair. In modern Western culture, far more people are living in sinful situations than in holy marriages. The goal is to call them all back, without repulsing them with stern rebukes.

Pope Francis is not preaching to the choir. He is speaking to the gay Catholics who are drawn to following Christ, and he is gently inviting them to turn from their sins just as Christ did.

This is a very stern rebuke to those gay bishops who want to embrace worldly values. It doesn't sound stern, but it is. Good priests can speak confidently now about the sanctity of marriage, and bad bishops can't say anything to stop them. Good bishops have clearance to discipline the old, gay priests who are still pressing the envelope by affirming people in their sins.

[jmg]

Some good news!


Pope Says Blessings For Individuals In Same-Sex Relationships Cannot Resemble Marriage Brief, Direct, To-the-Point, Honest



Basically, a priest can give a blessing as he normally would to anyone who asks for it.

But there are not going to be ceremonies, in a Church, with tuxedos and costume dresses and invited guests and cake, to especially bless aberrant sorts of life-partnerships.

Kudos to Pope Francis for finally giving us a clearly definite and faithful answer on something.

“Irregular situations”? Why is he not calling this what is is? A sinful relationship. Del, I am not at all poking at you about this. I respect the hell out of you. But I seriously thought you would condemn this situation. So, my question is this…why are you not in disagreement with this statement? What would it take for you to condemn it? Would he have to fully endorse homosexual relationships? Sanction them as equal to a marriage between a woman and a man? I ask from a place of genuinely not understanding this. Why is it alright to bless something that God clearly calls sin and an abomination?

The instruction is very clear that the "union of a same-sex couple" cannot be blessed.

“Couples in “irregular situations,” including same-sex relationships, can receive blessings”

What am I missing here?

[Del]

“Irregular situations”? Why is he not calling this what is is? A sinful relationship. Del, I am not at all poking at you about this. I respect the hell out of you. But I seriously thought you would condemn this situation. So, my question is this…why are you not in disagreement with this statement? What would it take for you to condemn it? Would he have to fully endorse homosexual relationships? Sanction them as equal to a marriage between a woman and a man? I ask from a place of genuinely not understanding this. Why is it alright to bless something that God clearly calls sin and an abomination?

The instruction is very clear that the "union of a same-sex couple" cannot be blessed.

“Couples in “irregular situations,” including same-sex relationships, can receive blessings”

What am I missing here?

Sinners need blessings more than the righteous. The guys can ask for a blessing prayer, which is usually some spontaneous form of invoking God to protect them and lead them on right paths.

But the sin itself cannot be blessed. That would be "scandal," affirming sinners to persist in their sins.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you seem to be misunderstanding something about Catholic faith here and I'm not sure what it is.

When a Catholic asks his priest for a "blessing," it is essentially the same thing as an Evangelical or Baptist asking his pastor to pray for him. It is not a formal or liturgical thing. It is spontaneous and joyful.

Here's how it normally goes: A Catholic or two have a chance encounter with a priest... let's say, at a bookstore or something.
"Hi Father! How are you?"
"Fine, thank you."
<irrelevant chit-chat>
"Can we have a quick blessing?"
"Sure! 'May the blessings of Almighty God....' " As they bow their heads and make the Sign of the Cross.
"Thanks, Father! Good-Bye!"

Suppose a couple of gay Catholics encounter their pastor thus. Good-hearted guys, but they are gay so their sins are a bit more public than most. They might even have an IRS tax status. They can still ask for a blessing, just like the rest of us sinners.
============================

The problem is that gay activists want to abuse the simple blessing rite. They want to dress up, stand up in church, invite guests, and receive a "formal blessing" for pledging their lives together. They want something that looks like a ceremony of Sacramental Marriage. They want the Church to act like their sin is okay now.

As the article notes, some liberal bishops in Europe were even drawing up norms for a fake-liturgy to do exactly this.

Francis is saying, "Look, guys: The Church is a rehab hospital for sinners, and you are welcome here. But you are invited here for healing, and we are not going to bless your sins."

And to the bishops: "Don't even think about it."
===============================================

"Irregular situations" troubles you. You think it is too soft. It's fine. To anyone who bothers to read a papal document, "irregular situations" clearly (and politely) means "not in accord with God's plan." "Irregular situations" cannot be made regular, much less sanctified and holy. They can only be dealt with, with justice and mercy.

National Catholic Reporter is going to twist the Pope's words to suit their agenda, no matter what. Their editors and publishers have already been excommunicated. There's not much else we can do about them.

[jmg]

The instruction is very clear that the "union of a same-sex couple" cannot be blessed.

“Couples in “irregular situations,” including same-sex relationships, can receive blessings”

What am I missing here?

Sinners need blessings more than the righteous. The guys can ask for a blessing prayer, which is usually some spontaneous form of invoking God to protect them and lead them on right paths.

But the sin itself cannot be blessed. That would be "scandal," affirming sinners to persist in their sins.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you seem to be misunderstanding something about Catholic faith here and I'm not sure what it is.

When a Catholic asks his priest for a "blessing," it is essentially the same thing as an Evangelical or Baptist asking his pastor to pray for him. It is not a formal or liturgical thing. It is spontaneous and joyful.

Here's how it normally goes: A Catholic or two have a chance encounter with a priest... let's say, at a bookstore or something.
"Hi Father! How are you?"
"Fine, thank you."
<irrelevant chit-chat>
"Can we have a quick blessing?"
"Sure! 'May the blessings of Almighty God....' " As they bow their heads and make the Sign of the Cross.
"Thanks, Father! Good-Bye!"

Suppose a couple of gay Catholics encounter their pastor thus. Good-hearted guys, but they are gay so their sins are a bit more public than most. They might even have an IRS tax status. They can still ask for a blessing, just like the rest of us sinners.
============================

The problem is that gay activists want to abuse the simple blessing rite. They want to dress up, stand up in church, invite guests, and receive a "formal blessing" for pledging their lives together. They want something that looks like a ceremony of Sacramental Marriage. They want the Church to act like their sin is okay now.

As the article notes, some liberal bishops in Europe were even drawing up norms for a fake-liturgy to do exactly this.

Francis is saying, "Look, guys: The Church is a rehab hospital for sinners, and you are welcome here. But you are invited here for healing, and we are not going to bless your sins."

And to the bishops: "Don't even think about it."
===============================================

"Irregular situations" troubles you. You think it is too soft. It's fine. To anyone who bothers to read a papal document, "irregular situations" clearly (and politely) means "not in accord with God's plan." "Irregular situations" cannot be made regular, much less sanctified and holy. They can only be dealt with, with justice and mercy.

National Catholic Reporter is going to twist the Pope's words to suit their agenda, no matter what. Their editors and publishers have already been excommunicated. There's not much else we can do about them.

I don’t have enough intelligence to insult, so you’re good. I appreciate the response. It makes more sense. Though I still have disagreements, at least so much as I am understanding this. I will reply in more detail later today after work.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

[…]

Kudos to Pope Francis for finally giving us a clearly definite and faithful answer on something.

Kudos to you for finally interpreting Francis aright on something.

Repeat this feat with Amoris Laetitia, Laudato Si', and the Catechetical Death Penalty Revision (the Pope's "Big 3" doctrinal developments) and maybe you'll feel more comfortable with the overall tenor of his pontificate.

[Del]

+JMJ+

[…]

Kudos to Pope Francis for finally giving us a clearly definite and faithful answer on something.

Kudos to you for finally interpreting Francis aright on something.

Repeat this feat with Amoris Laetitia, Laudato Si', and the Catechetical Death Penalty Revision (the Pope's "Big 3" doctrinal developments) and maybe you'll feel more comfortable with the overall tenor of his pontificate.

I am sticking with the flock of faithful Catholic sheep, waiting for the Holy Spirit to sort this out or for Christ to come again.

Christ's Church has endured much greater worldly confusion before, and we have been promised both great apostasy and tribulation to come before the final victory. There is nothing to despair.

[Hovannes]

“Couples in “irregular situations,” including same-sex relationships, can receive blessings”

What am I missing here?

Siamese twins?

[Del]

National Catholic Reporter is going to twist the Pope's words to suit their agenda, no matter what. Their editors and publishers have already been excommunicated. There's not much else we can do about them.

I don’t have enough intelligence to insult, so you’re good. I appreciate the response. It makes more sense. Though I still have disagreements, at least so much as I am understanding this. I will reply in more detail later today after work.

I'm coming around to your point of view, and Hovannes'.

This was stated in Francis's usual double-speak, without clearly saying "yes" or "no." Technically affirming the truth -- while opening the door to abuse and lies.

It is likely that there will be marriage-like blessings of gay unions, and I doubt those unfaithful priests and bishops will be disciplined or expelled like the faithful Bishop Strickland or Cardinal Burke.

I guess we'll see, soon enough.