tuttle wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 12:32
[side topic]
It's been a while since we've tangled, Thunk. I love you bro. I like the way you tick. And forgive me, while I recall you had a rather wild journey from Christianity to some form of neo-Paganism, when last we left I thought you had, in some way returned to some form of Theism, at least enough to the point where you didn't claim God was purely imaginary.[/side topic]
Thunktank wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 09:30
You know, maybe you fellows need to learn to listen for a change. Well except for the imaginary voice in your heads that is. I never said, we shouldn’t ever listen to voices of the past. I said, paraphrased, that we may disregard some of those voices when what they said is complete garbage.
Which brings us back to the question: By what standard do you disregard some voices as garbage? If our standards evolve, then how can we be sure that our disregarding of garbage voices isn't itself just another voice destined for the garbage?
Thunktank wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 09:30
I don’t believe in a Holy Judge who would support the hanging of witches just because they’re witches or merely accused of being one, the destruction of Catholics or even those who would falsely accuse OC Republicans for being gay when they aren’t. So go ahead and call to criminally charge women for “murdering their babies” after they get dumped by their horny boyfriends or worse, raped. Go ahead there fellows, pretend you’re better than I. I don’t celebrate abortion. I hope for a world with happy and hopeful people. A world were abortions are rare and the desire for abortion is rarer. A society that cares deeply for everyone and tries to make sure we all have enough to live a good life, even witches and gays.
You fellows seem to defend hateful men and want to further their bigotry in the name of God. The same sort of evil we see coming from Russia today. A war in which an evil zealot bishop and his wannabe emperor wage a bloody war against what they say is a decedent and liberal west. Just nasty little men they are. Like I said, I don’t know your Holy Judge or Putin’s/Kirill’s. You all prop up the past, especially the wrong parts.
By what standard do you believe rape to be wrong?
To be clear, I was never a Neo pagan. I do however find inspiration in ancient myths, including the Christian ones. Along with music, movies, philosophy and just being out on a mountain top or wading in the surf near my home. I love to learn about ancient technology and prehistoric technology. It’s part of the reason I also enjoy archery and practice almost daily.
But I’m not sure where you came up with the idea that I actually professed (seriously) as being neo pagan. I do remember I accidentally posted something that was meant to be a PM to Rusty as he and I were discussing Nordic myths. We talked about stuff like then in those days as we compared the view of myths between CPS Christians and ancient heathen myths of Europe. There’s not much of interest in much of “neo paganism” to me personally. Especially in it’s popular Wicca forms. I have tended to be far more interested in the work of certain “reconstructionist” heathenism and other linguistic scholarship from those sources. Dr. Jackson Crawford for example has quite a bit of good scholarship readily accessible to most layman like myself. He isn’t a heathen either, but enjoys the topic.
Regardless, there is a resurgence of sorts in a type of pagan/heathen world view and it’s not necessarily one based on traditional beliefs about deity. A different sort of “spirituality” is rising. It’s much more earthy and therapeutic that many people find value in and also find value and beauty in creation through it. Some of that is found in neopagan and reconstructionist pagan groups, but it goes far beyond that.
On a personal note, I’ve been enjoying Meditations by Marcus Aurelius who was a Stoic Roman Emperor known as the last of his kind. I participate with the Los Angeles Stoics which is not a religion, but a practical philosophy club. I don’t consider myself a stoic either, simply find it inspiring at times, though find that it falls short in the external needs people have while appreciating the great inner discipline and acceptance of the way things are.
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But anyway, I meant to approach your question of moral standards. I didn’t before on purpose. You seem to follow the thinking that morality is the domain of God and all of it has been revealed through the Christian revelation. Is that correct? In addition to that, I believe I remember that you favor Calvinism too. In this belief system a very Holy Transcendent God must save a totally deprived sinner. Frankly, I’m not sure where to meet you on that. You and I are very far apart.
Ethics is type of philosophy, it can help people form various thoughts on morality and it is also found in Christianity. But Christian’s themselves use ethics beyond even what they believe is revealed laws of God. This yearning for goodness is to me a mark of anyone who cares. And that “care” is the first and most ancient and important part of ethics. It is not always measured against a transcendent standard. But it can nevertheless be a powerful help for people who are doing the best they can to be better humans.