Election Thread II: Kamala vs. Trump

[sweetandsour]

All of the talking heads are chattering, with a spectrum of views about what this means for Biden's legacy, the Democrat Party, Trump's presidency, the nation, etc.

But here's a hot take apart from the rest, from Chuck Todd (NBC News, but speaking apart from his network)..... asserting that Joe and Jill decided to run for President for the sole and selfish reason of keeping Hunter out of jail. Sounds crazy, but it makes sense when he explains it. And it also explains Joe's lack of concern or interest in just about everything else.

60 seconds on X:
https://x.com/ChrisCillizza/status/1863762907718197263

Pretty far fetched IMO. Maybe the "handlers" (of the past 4 years, whoever they are) that talked Biden into running for prez dangled the "pardon the son" carrot in front of him as an incentive, I'd maybe buy that one. But otherwise, I'm willing to simply accept what the Biden family is currently saying publicly about it. I agree with Fred, it's probably the most normal and right thing he's done in the past 4 years.

I think the biggest gripe most have is that he lied when he said, over and over, that he wouldn't issue a pardon. The same democrat talking heads, in the government and in the media, who told us over and over that Biden was as sharp as ever, then that Harris was a strong candidate, are now calling Biden out on this particular lie? What a total cluster f this whole circus has morphed into. Those atop the Democratic party have shown themselves to be selfish clowns who put their own interests ahead of the country and I think the party will suffer the consequences for many years. Much of the legacy media that championed Biden/Harris will never regain public trust. As Hills might say, they're all a basket of deplorable liars.

As for legacy, Biden's was ruined anyway. Massive migrant issues, very poor economy, wokeness, thousands of fentanyl deaths, mental decline, billions to back a losing effort in Ukraine which has cost thousands of lives, Dr Jill, and on and on. He'll be remembered as one of the worst Presidents in history. Pardoning his kid is just a minor footnote in the story of his public service.

Very well said.

I saw that Bill Clinton was quoted as saying that he agreed with the decision, but he wished that Biden had not previously said that he would not interfere in his son's legal affairs. Semantics aside, if one states their intentions and then changes their mind, is it a lie? I remember when George Bush Sr (or whatever) was campaigning with his "read my lips, no new taxes" logo, then during his term we got new taxes, and then after he lost to Clinton, Bush himself said that it was his downfall. Some voters called him a failure for his inability to live up to his promise, but most simply called him a liar.

Anyway, and now I see that Biden is considering so-called blanket pardons, or "future pardons" if you will, for anyone that the Trump administration might go after. Where will this end?

[Del]

I saw that Bill Clinton was quoted as saying that he agreed with the decision, but he wished that Biden had not previously said that he would not interfere in his son's legal affairs. Semantics aside, if one states their intentions and then changes their mind, is it a lie? I remember when George Bush Sr (or whatever) was campaigning with his "read my lips, no new taxes" logo, then during his term we got new taxes, and then after he lost to Clinton, Bush himself said that it was his downfall. Some voters called him a failure for his inability to live up to his promise, but most simply called him a liar.

Anyway, and now I see that Biden is considering so-called blanket pardons, or "future pardons" if you will, for anyone that the Trump administration might go after. Where will this end?

All we know for certain is that Biden reversed on his promise to respect the Justice system. This has cost him a great deal among his Democrat fellows. General consensus among the chattering class Democrats is that Biden is no better than Trump, and they have lost the moral high ground that they claimed to occupy. They are damned if they defend Biden, and they look like fools for believing him in the first place.

General consensus among the MAGA chattering class is that we never believed Biden in the first place. There was no way that he was ever going to let Hunter sit in prison. He only said that to protect his re-election chances.

[FredS]

All we know for certain is that Biden reversed on his promise to respect the Justice system. This has cost him a great deal among his Democrat fellows.

His Democratic fellows threw him under the bus months ago. The pardon gives them license to put the last nail in his coffin without appearing too harsh on an old man with dementia. His should be a cautionary tale that the democratic party gives zero f's how long and faithful your service has been, they'll toss you out like three-day-old fish when you're no longer useful to them.

General consensus among the MAGA chattering class is that we never believed Biden in the first place. There was no way that he was ever going to let Hunter sit in prison. He only said that to protect his re-election chances.

Deep down, I think the Dems and the media also believed he was lying, but thought they'd backed him into a corner that made them look like the virtuous law and order party. After all, Biden and his crew said it a hundred times - 'no pardon', period.' They were all willing to sacrifice Hunter, and surely Biden wouldn't show himself, and them, to be flat out liars would he? They didn't realize that, after Obama, the party, and the media turned on him, the crafty old fox was left with only his faithful family for support so he did what he could to protect them. Like every soap opera ever, at the end blood is thicker than water.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

[Del]

Shortly after being named TIME's "Man of the Year," Donald Trump rang the opening bell for the New York Stock Exchange:

https://x.com/america/status/1867219130950025413

[FredS]

I know a lot of young Democrat voters are still scared of the orange man because they believed the msm before the election. They should keep paying attention when msnbc did an about face and sent their folks to have lunch at his house. They should be watching Dr Jill and Trump sitting next to each other, smiling, making small talk at Notre Dame Cathedral. Shaking hands with the president of France and being welcomed to the palace. They should watch the Prime Minister of Canada visiting his home and the Mexican President calling to beg for good relations. All of this before he's even in office.

One month! One month is all it took to start rebuilding our status in the world. To make hostage takers and keepers start to doubt their strategies. To make European allies realize it's time they start putting their own skin in the game when it comes to arming and protecting themselves. One month for Canada and Mexico to rethink their extremely profitable and one-sided relationships with America. One month to make auto execs rethink some of their plans to move production to factories in Mexico because the cheaper labor costs will be offset by tariffs or other penalties.

So yeah, I know many are afraid of the future, but many more are optimistic and excited about where we're headed. I've said for years that liberal and woke policies would go so far left that regular folks - like my grown children, legal immigrants, Christians, etc - would see the disastrous outcomes and it would be easy for them swing things back to the center. We pissed away a lot of time and treasure with the experiments, but we're going in the right direction now.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

I know a lot of young Democrat voters are still scared of the orange man because they believed the msm before the election. They should keep paying attention when msnbc did an about face and sent their folks to have lunch at his house. They should be watching Dr Jill and Trump sitting next to each other, smiling, making small talk at Notre Dame Cathedral. Shaking hands with the president of France and being welcomed to the palace. They should watch the Prime Minister of Canada visiting his home and the Mexican President calling to beg for good relations. All of this before he's even in office.

[…]

And Pope Pius XII kept open lines of communication with Hitler (and was correct to do so). So what?

This proves nothing other than, as I've said before, we hafta learn to live with everyone (even with those whom we must oppose to the face). As Pope Francis teaches in Fratelli Tutti, no one can be Othered — no one can be Demonized.

[FredS]

+JMJ+

I know a lot of young Democrat voters are still scared of the orange man because they believed the msm before the election. They should keep paying attention when msnbc did an about face and sent their folks to have lunch at his house. They should be watching Dr Jill and Trump sitting next to each other, smiling, making small talk at Notre Dame Cathedral. Shaking hands with the president of France and being welcomed to the palace. They should watch the Prime Minister of Canada visiting his home and the Mexican President calling to beg for good relations. All of this before he's even in office.

[…]

And Pope Pius XII kept open lines of communication with Hitler (and was correct to do so). So what?

This proves nothing other than, as I've said before, we hafta learn to live with everyone (even with those whom we must oppose to the face). As Pope Francis teaches in Fratelli Tutti, no one can be Othered — no one can be Demonized.

That's ridiculous. Do you think the last crop of Democratic leaders wanted "to live with everyone (even with those whom we must oppose to the face)"? Or did they seek to censor, silence, and marginalize those they disagreed with? Pressing big tech, facebook and google specifically, to censor unflattering stories or vaccine deniers, under threat of government regulation, is pretty much the definition of facism. Silence yer critics.

As for world leaders simply being nice to the new face of America because they must get along , , , well yeah that might be the case with some. Even if it is, trying to get along rather than take advantage, is a step forward isn't it? But did the Canadian PM ever visit Bidens house? Did the Mexican President ever call Biden personally to discuss trade or border policy? As for Papa Joe and Dr Jill hamming it up with Trump and welcoming him, you've written before that they only do it because they have to get along. That's nonsense. They don't have to do that and they wouldn't do that if they really thought Trump = Hitler. What sort of sorry shitbag would do that to/with a person they truly thought evil? Pope Pius XII may have done it for whatever reasons Catholics now use to justify it, but it was wrong then and would be wrong now. Do you excuse the turnarounds as mere statesmanship?

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

[…]

… Do you excuse the turnarounds as mere statesmanship?

I mean just what I say and don't mean one drop different. No one can be Othered/Demonized.

If some in MSM had sanctimoniously demonized and then had to rejigger their rhetoric, then that's on them. I'm speaking only of how things should be. Trump is a Fascist, but there are many ways to skin a Fascist. Demonization is not one of them — the prince of the world is already thrown down.

[Jocose]

Trump is a Fascist, but there are many ways to skin a Fascist. Demonization is not one of them — the prince of the world is already thrown down.

https://x.com/LeadingReport/status/1867181794811875523

For the first time in U.S. history, a Nativity scene, along with prayer, Christmas carols, and a Scripture reading of the birth of Jesus, was held at the U.S. Capitol.