1 Timothy 4 - NIV

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1 Timothy 4 - NIV

Post by Del »

FredS wrote: 15 Aug 2022, 08:52
MrPiper wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 04:21 As usual, this becomes an "Agree to disagree" thread.
Yep. Heaven help us (OK, heaven help Del) if we/he should meet his end on earth when he's not directly facing God. You know, in one of those dozens of moments every day when we wander a little or a lot and "lose" our salvation before we can confess ourselves and return to a right and perfect relationship with our Lord.
Us Cat'lics like to say, "The only tragedy is to die before becoming a saint." We focus on cultivating virtues until we have our faces set on God and losing our attachment to sin.

We can't get to heaven without embracing a grave dread for sin.

But.... as much as we recognize God's love, we also trust in His mercy.

There is still hope for weak and stumbling souls who struggle to keep our eyes and feet on the path, as long as we keep stumbling forward to God. Purgatory is such a great mercy! It may take a while and it won't be easy, but final salvation is assured to us.... once we lose those clinging addictions and attachment to sin.

Frequent confession is powerful in letting go of addicting sins.

As Jesus said to St. Faustina (forgive me for paraphrasing from memory) -- "The Door of Mercy is wide and easy. The Door of Justice is narrow and hard. Choose the Door of Mercy now, while it is available!"
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1 Timothy 4 - NIV

Post by mcommini »

FredS wrote: 15 Aug 2022, 08:52
MrPiper wrote: 10 Aug 2022, 04:21 As usual, this becomes an "Agree to disagree" thread.
Yep. Heaven help us (OK, heaven help Del) if we/he should meet his end on earth when he's not directly facing God. You know, in one of those dozens of moments every day when we wander a little or a lot and "lose" our salvation before we can confess ourselves and return to a right and perfect relationship with our Lord.
Yes, because that's how the whole "confession" and "forgiveness" thing works. God, knowing that we are finite beings with finite capabilities of attention and memory, is just waiting for that momentary slip- up - one we may not either notice or remember- to re-damn us all over again. And He's holding onto that damnation until we tick this one little box, then suddenly everything's ok... for the next 5 seconds.

Confession (and this goes for all the Sacraments) is not some little button you push and suddenly the wrathful Anselmnian God's unrelenting justice is appeased. We don't confess because God needs to hear it in order to forgive- He already saw all we do and forgave from Calvary. We confess (and get baptized, partake of the Eucharist, etc) not because it's something God needs from us but because it is something we need.

In it we confront the fact that we are still imperfect creatures. Even if we go throughout the day committing no visible sin we still have a myriad of ways in which we fall short. In it we see that we are indeed not worthy of our salvation. We confess our sins, often knowing that we'll go no more than five steps from that confession before we commit another.

And yet- in our confession we are armed and prepared. We examine ourselves and so get to know our enemy. We find our weaknesses and so can shore up our defenses.

And in confession we humble ourselves. We destroy that false image of our own perfection. We confront the 2x4 lodged in our sight. And we see that our brother's sins are very forgivable. For if I- I am who doing this thing I know myself to have done, can call on that font of forgiveness, how much so should I forgive my brother for what I think he has done?

But those who would confess aren't those who need fear losing their salvation- God knows who we are. It is those who, knowing of their fault, will not confess that we should be afraid for. There are those who depart from Christ to pursue adultery, graft, murder, and so on. There are those who depart from Christ through heresy, teaching an interpretation of Scripture counter to the Church's (I believe we can all agree that the main Christological heresies of the first few councils are indeed heresies), elevating their reason above God's and leading others astray.

We can argue over when and how salvation happens until the cows come home- I think, ultimately, we'll find out on the other side of time we were all right, in a way. But there is a reality in every denomination that St Paul addresses here and other places. There are those in our churches who seemed so safe, so good, the very pillars of the church, the people that gave us the message of salvation who, for whatever reason leave the church and even actively try to lead others to follow them. And the one thing Paul does not tell us is "this means they were never saved to begin with." Because that's not what we need to hear- mainly because it's not as reassuring as you think. If Deacon Jones- the man who taught the Romans Road and hosted those men's breakfast, was every day helping the homeless, who was praying with a beloved relative moments before the doctor came in to say the cancer is in remission, who seemed to have all the fruits of the Spirit in abundance- if Deacon Jones is found out in some scandal, or begins denying the divinity of Christ, or for any other reason leaves Christianity with a finality, if Deacon Jones was not saved who seemed to have such bold faith, then what hope have I- I whose faith can't even get me up in time for church every Sunday. Deacon Jones's belief blazed with an intensity while some days it's all I can do just to believe in God at all. If Deacon Jones is a fraud playing at being saved, then what am I?

But- Deacon Jones can be a warning: "this is what happens when faith is stagnant and not without life. This is what happens when that seed of belief flourishes but does not find soil deep enough to find root. This is what happens when you will not let that one sin go, when you set it up in the high places of the heart and turn to worship it. This is the error that, if possible, deceives even the elect. Examine yourself, take watch, for if this can happen to Deacon Jones, who are you?"

The one thing I do know about Deacon Jones- whatever form it took in his faith tradition, he long ago stopped making his confession.
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