ROE V WADE OVERRULED!

[FredS]

No majority in public opinion. Hmmm.....

I think most people - excluding the most vocal packs on the left and the right - understand this ruling does not prohibit, or even restrict, abortion. It just kicks the decision it back to state lawmakers, and thus local voters. So, even those who identify as pro-choice may not oppose the ruling.

[gaining_age]

No majority in public opinion. Hmmm.....

I think most people - excluding the most vocal packs on the left and the right - understand this ruling does not prohibit, or even restrict, abortion. It just kicks the decision it back to state lawmakers, and thus local voters. So, even those who identify as pro-choice may not oppose the ruling.

Working as intended?

[Del]

No majority in public opinion. Hmmm.....

I think most people - excluding the most vocal packs on the left and the right - understand this ruling does not prohibit, or even restrict, abortion. It just kicks the decision it back to state lawmakers, and thus local voters. So, even those who identify as pro-choice may not oppose the ruling.

Another thing is that most people don't think about the abortion issue every day. Three-quarters of the nation's abortion clinics have quietly closed in recent decades, and no one missed them. Over much of the nation, people have already adapted to living without easy access to an abortion clinic. They don't see this as a major change to their lives.

People are worried about having money to fill their gas tanks this week, and rumors of layoffs due to recession.

[FredS]

No majority in public opinion. Hmmm.....

I think most people - excluding the most vocal packs on the left and the right - understand this ruling does not prohibit, or even restrict, abortion. It just kicks the decision it back to state lawmakers, and thus local voters. So, even those who identify as pro-choice may not oppose the ruling.

Working as intended?

'zactly

[Thunktank]

I think most people - excluding the most vocal packs on the left and the right - understand this ruling does not prohibit, or even restrict, abortion. It just kicks the decision it back to state lawmakers, and thus local voters. So, even those who identify as pro-choice may not oppose the ruling.

Working as intended?

'zactly

Not necessarily. Of course you may be right that some think that, but the much bigger issue is whether a woman has the basic freedom of choice or not regardless of where she lives in this country. The conservative leaning crowd for the most part don’t. They also don’t understand privilege, that some poor women won’t believe they have a choice because they literally don’t believe they can get to a freedom of choice state to get the care they believe they need. Which goes to show the grave desperation they’re in. But I don’t believe the typical conservative leaner or for that matter the typical elitist liberal can even wrap their brains around those sorts of problems. I was rather shocked the first time I came across this. How can this be in the wealthiest country on earth?

I believe in freedom of choice with regulations and restrictions. How Roe ended up is much how the 2nd Amendment did in the courts. It became an “absolute” right without various considerations and virtually no restrictions for any reason.

I’m somewhat ambivalent toward the loss of Roe, but absolutely opposed to the why it has been over ruled. It should not be a states rights issue as to whether a woman has a right or not. Furthermore, the court has been ruling to roll back other freedoms like freedom of religion, unless of course one is Christian and wants to subject his faith on those not interested, then the court is your best friend.

For years I supported crisis pregnancy centers. I don’t trust them any more than I do planned parenthood anymore. Both organizations are two sides of the same coin. They are both special interests and organizations that don’t tell the whole truth in favor of their own ideology. America subsists in their polarities. Americans have difficulty finding the paradox between those polarized positions. The part that worries me the most though is that too many are looking to completely ban one freedom or another while defending their favorite freedoms without reservations or personal responsibilities.

[Del]

What fresh hell is this?

‘I’m Going To Do Everything In My Power’: Biden Calls To Suspend The Filibuster And Nationalize Abortion Law

For one thing, this Court will not allow it. On what Constitutional grounds can the Congresss overrule state legislators? "Interstate commerce"?

Congress cannot simply pass a bill to allow all abortions or ban all abortions. That would take an amendment to the Constitution.
=================================

As for me, this is the final straw to break this camel's back.

All this time, I have felt sorry for old Joe. He's very old & crotchety, and getting a bit senile. He got pushed into this office and the job is way beyond him. The shadowy Democrat elites and billionaires and special interest lobbies are beyond his control.

Just like Mr. T, "I pity the fool." Or I used to, anyway.

If Catholic Joe takes a single step in this direction, my pity will turn loathing and abject rage. The old fool has inflicted us with quite enough intentional damage already.

And then I'll just have to do my best to keep it off of CPS. We don't need any hate here. I still remember when some guys just hated President Trump, and that wasn't fun for anyone.

[tuttle]

Working as intended?

'zactly

Not necessarily. Of course you may be right that some think that, but the much bigger issue is whether a woman has the basic freedom of choice or not regardless of where she lives in this country. The conservative leaning crowd for the most part don’t. They also don’t understand privilege, that some poor women won’t believe they have a choice because they literally don’t believe they can get to a freedom of choice state to get the care they believe they need. Which goes to show the grave desperation they’re in. But I don’t believe the typical conservative leaner or for that matter the typical elitist liberal can even wrap their brains around those sorts of problems. I was rather shocked the first time I came across this. How can this be in the wealthiest country on earth?

I believe in freedom of choice with regulations and restrictions. How Roe ended up is much how the 2nd Amendment did in the courts. It became an “absolute” right without various considerations and virtually no restrictions for any reason.

I’m somewhat ambivalent toward the loss of Roe, but absolutely opposed to the why it has been over ruled. It should not be a states rights issue as to whether a woman has a right or not. Furthermore, the court has been ruling to roll back other freedoms like freedom of religion, unless of course one is Christian and wants to subject his faith on those not interested, then the court is your best friend.

For years I supported crisis pregnancy centers. I don’t trust them any more than I do planned parenthood anymore. Both organizations are two sides of the same coin. They are both special interests and organizations that don’t tell the whole truth in favor of their own ideology. America subsists in their polarities. Americans have difficulty finding the paradox between those polarized positions. The part that worries me the most though is that too many are looking to completely ban one freedom or another while defending their favorite freedoms without reservations or personal responsibilities.

You keep framing abortion as the freedoms and rights of women. There is nowhere a right in the constitution that woman has the right to an abortion. That's just a fiction shouted enough that people think it's true. Strictly speaking, it is a states rights issue. Comparing it to the 2nd amendment is apples and oranges. The 2nd amendment is explicitly in the constitution. It's more comparable to something like weed. There is also no constitutional right to smoke weed. This too is a states rights issue. No one has a right to smoke weed, but some states have decided to permit it and others to forbid it. That doesn't mean one state is trampling the constitutional rights of people who want to smoke weed. There is a system in place for the people of that state to provide that freedom if they so desire, as well as a system in place that allows disgruntled citizens to move freely to a permissible state.

Now of course, as I say all of the above, I'm speaking specifically about the current state of our country. Our country once believed abortion to be murder and as such there were different ramifications for abortion, and so at that time it couldn't be comparable to weed today. So these things are in flux to a certain degree. My hope is that at some point in the future we will regain the righteous perspective of our forefathers and once again consider abortion to be murder, unacceptable and criminal in every state. Of course there is the possibility that future citizens will create a new amendment to the constitution making abortion a right. There is a system in place to do that. I don't think our country is healthy enough to achieve either at the moment. It'll probably be decided in some other, likely more horrible way that supersedes the law, either by war or despotism.

[tuttle]

What fresh hell is this?

‘I’m Going To Do Everything In My Power’: Biden Calls To Suspend The Filibuster And Nationalize Abortion Law

For one thing, this Court will not allow it. On what Constitutional grounds can the Congresss overrule state legislators? "Interstate commerce"?

Congress cannot simply pass a bill to allow all abortions or ban all abortions. That would take an amendment to the Constitution.
=================================

As for me, this is the final straw to break this camel's back.

All this time, I have felt sorry for old Joe. He's very old & crotchety, and getting a bit senile. He got pushed into this office and the job is way beyond him. The shadowy Democrat elites and billionaires and special interest lobbies are beyond his control.

Just like Mr. T, "I pity the fool." Or I used to, anyway.

If Catholic Joe takes a single step in this direction, my pity will turn loathing and abject rage. The old fool has inflicted us with quite enough intentional damage already.

And then I'll just have to do my best to keep it off of CPS. We don't need any hate here. I still remember when some guys just hated President Trump, and that wasn't fun for anyone.

I actually think this is just a ploy. It will fail because one or two democrats will balk and they will use it as fuel for the next election. See! We can't do anything NOW, that's why it's important to vote blue so that we can change the law!

Of course, the extremely interesting thing is that the success of something like this, eliminating the filibuster, will absolutely be used against them when the GOP is in power. What's even more interesting is that if they do pass a law, and it does go to court, this might give the court the ability to define the unborn as a legal person, creating the backfire of all backfires, destroying abortion altogether.

[Thunktank]

'zactly

Not necessarily. Of course you may be right that some think that, but the much bigger issue is whether a woman has the basic freedom of choice or not regardless of where she lives in this country. The conservative leaning crowd for the most part don’t. They also don’t understand privilege, that some poor women won’t believe they have a choice because they literally don’t believe they can get to a freedom of choice state to get the care they believe they need. Which goes to show the grave desperation they’re in. But I don’t believe the typical conservative leaner or for that matter the typical elitist liberal can even wrap their brains around those sorts of problems. I was rather shocked the first time I came across this. How can this be in the wealthiest country on earth?

I believe in freedom of choice with regulations and restrictions. How Roe ended up is much how the 2nd Amendment did in the courts. It became an “absolute” right without various considerations and virtually no restrictions for any reason.

I’m somewhat ambivalent toward the loss of Roe, but absolutely opposed to the why it has been over ruled. It should not be a states rights issue as to whether a woman has a right or not. Furthermore, the court has been ruling to roll back other freedoms like freedom of religion, unless of course one is Christian and wants to subject his faith on those not interested, then the court is your best friend.

For years I supported crisis pregnancy centers. I don’t trust them any more than I do planned parenthood anymore. Both organizations are two sides of the same coin. They are both special interests and organizations that don’t tell the whole truth in favor of their own ideology. America subsists in their polarities. Americans have difficulty finding the paradox between those polarized positions. The part that worries me the most though is that too many are looking to completely ban one freedom or another while defending their favorite freedoms without reservations or personal responsibilities.

You keep framing abortion as the freedoms and rights of women. There is nowhere a right in the constitution that woman has the right to an abortion. That's just a fiction shouted enough that people think it's true. Strictly speaking, it is a states rights issue. Comparing it to the 2nd amendment is apples and oranges. The 2nd amendment is explicitly in the constitution. It's more comparable to something like weed. There is also no constitutional right to smoke weed. This too is a states rights issue. No one has a right to smoke weed, but some states have decided to permit it and others to forbid it. That doesn't mean one state is trampling the constitutional rights of people who want to smoke weed. There is a system in place for the people of that state to provide that freedom if they so desire, as well as a system in place that allows disgruntled citizens to move freely to a permissible state.

Now of course, as I say all of the above, I'm speaking specifically about the current state of our country. Our country once believed abortion to be murder and as such there were different ramifications for abortion, and so at that time it couldn't be comparable to weed today. So these things are in flux to a certain degree. My hope is that at some point in the future we will regain the righteous perspective of our forefathers and once again consider abortion to be murder, unacceptable and criminal in every state. Of course there is the possibility that future citizens will create a new amendment to the constitution making abortion a right. There is a system in place to do that. I don't think our country is healthy enough to achieve either at the moment. It'll probably be decided in some other, likely more horrible way that supersedes the law, either by war or despotism.

Spoken like an Originalist constitutional supporter, maybe even a texualist. I fundamentally oppose that because I don’t believe it’s based in reality or even the setting the Constitution must exist. This goes to the crux of the matter for sure and I’m not prepared to go into the full defense of my position on that here. Nevertheless, just pointing out some of the root differences in our beliefs. Tuttle, you and I don’t agree on much.

[Del]

Working as intended?

'zactly

Not necessarily. Of course you may be right that some think that, but the much bigger issue is whether a woman has the basic freedom of choice or not regardless of where she lives in this country. The conservative leaning crowd for the most part don’t. They also don’t understand privilege, that some poor women won’t believe they have a choice because they literally don’t believe they can get to a freedom of choice state to get the care they believe they need. Which goes to show the grave desperation they’re in. But I don’t believe the typical conservative leaner or for that matter the typical elitist liberal can even wrap their brains around those sorts of problems. I was rather shocked the first time I came across this. How can this be in the wealthiest country on earth?

I believe in freedom of choice with regulations and restrictions. How Roe ended up is much how the 2nd Amendment did in the courts. It became an “absolute” right without various considerations and virtually no restrictions for any reason.

I’m somewhat ambivalent toward the loss of Roe, but absolutely opposed to the why it has been over ruled. It should not be a states rights issue as to whether a woman has a right or not. Furthermore, the court has been ruling to roll back other freedoms like freedom of religion, unless of course one is Christian and wants to subject his faith on those not interested, then the court is your best friend.

For years I supported crisis pregnancy centers. I don’t trust them any more than I do planned parenthood anymore. Both organizations are two sides of the same coin. They are both special interests and organizations that don’t tell the whole truth in favor of their own ideology. America subsists in their polarities. Americans have difficulty finding the paradox between those polarized positions. The part that worries me the most though is that too many are looking to completely ban one freedom or another while defending their favorite freedoms without reservations or personal responsibilities.

I don't understand why you wouldn't trust the charity Care Centers. What stories have you heard?

They aren't run by liars who profit from the women and children in their care.

A concerned woman walks in. She gets a free pregnancy test and a free ultrasound. We listen to her fears and worries. We show her all the help that is available to meet those concerns, and we promise to support her for as long as it takes. We offer to help her even if she chooses abortion, and finds that she needs help dealing with the aftermath of that decision.

Lots of women walk out and we never see them again. We don't know if they chose life, or if they succumbed to pressure from boyfriends and employers and the fearsome sales tactics of the abortion profiteers. At least she knew that each woman really did have a real choice, and she wasn't trapped in the situation of having no other choice.

Sometimes a mother comes back with her baby and thank us for being there on that one day, when they were scared and under some pressure. Just knowing that there was someone ready to help if she needed it was enough confidence to push back against her boyfriend, and often enough they become a family instead of a tragedy.