ROE V WADE OVERRULED!

[Thunktank]

I don't think our country is healthy enough to achieve either at the moment. It'll probably be decided in some other, likely more horrible way that supersedes the law, either by war or despotism.

I completely agree that our country isn’t “healthy enough” to get together and live together in prosperity. I am absolutely horrified by what has happened over the last few years in particular. Our democratic freedoms and values are under great strain, most especially by the far right, from many folks like I see here on CPS. There’s some good reasons why I questioned that I belong here.

I see the far right leading us to Putinism. Putin joined with Patriarch Kirill who for years bemoaned the liberal democracies of the west and our rights and freedoms. They are a nasty lot. In our country we have our own religious zealots who find strong men who will attempt to over throw elections, and even egg on a crowd that threatens to hang his own choice of VP. But make no mistake, force of arms cannot settle the basis of our differences. It is impossible. Neither will Putin’s might or Patriarch Kirill’s condemnations ever make Russia right either.

No one is forcing you to have an abortion. Nor would they have any right to do so. You may believe in any God you wish, but you may not force it upon others.

[Del]

What fresh hell is this?

‘I’m Going To Do Everything In My Power’: Biden Calls To Suspend The Filibuster And Nationalize Abortion Law

For one thing, this Court will not allow it. On what Constitutional grounds can the Congresss overrule state legislators? "Interstate commerce"?

Congress cannot simply pass a bill to allow all abortions or ban all abortions. That would take an amendment to the Constitution.
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As for me, this is the final straw to break this camel's back.

All this time, I have felt sorry for old Joe. He's very old & crotchety, and getting a bit senile. He got pushed into this office and the job is way beyond him. The shadowy Democrat elites and billionaires and special interest lobbies are beyond his control.

Just like Mr. T, "I pity the fool." Or I used to, anyway.

If Catholic Joe takes a single step in this direction, my pity will turn loathing and abject rage. The old fool has inflicted us with quite enough intentional damage already.

And then I'll just have to do my best to keep it off of CPS. We don't need any hate here. I still remember when some guys just hated President Trump, and that wasn't fun for anyone.

I actually think this is just a ploy. It will fail because one or two democrats will balk and they will use it as fuel for the next election. See! We can't do anything NOW, that's why it's important to vote blue so that we can change the law!

Of course, the extremely interesting thing is that the success of something like this, eliminating the filibuster, will absolutely be used against them when the GOP is in power. What's even more interesting is that if they do pass a law, and it does go to court, this might give the court the ability to define the unborn as a legal person, creating the backfire of all backfires, destroying abortion altogether.

I bloody well know it's just a ploy to dupe their own base and distract us all from Biden's many other failures.

It's evil and cynical, and that's why loathing is a proper emotional response.
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This Court will not take the judicial activism route of defining a pre-born child as a person with all natural human rights to life, liberty, and due process. They should, but they won't.

Perhaps it's just as well. America needed two centuries of stark contrast between free states and slave states before a critical mass of Americans finally said, "Enough!" We may need a few generations of Respect Life states and Dead Baby states before our culture of life can be restored.

[Del]

No majority in public opinion. Hmmm.....

Poll: Half of Voters Approve Supreme Court Ruling

A different poll. Similar result, but a lot more detail in the opinions measured.

New Poll: Majority Of Americans Think Abortion Should Be Banned After First Trimester

[FredS]

. . . I completely agree that our country isn’t “healthy enough” to get together and live together in prosperity. I am absolutely horrified by what has happened over the last few years in particular. Our democratic freedoms and values are under great strain, most especially by the far right, from many folks like I see here on CPS. There’s some good reasons why I questioned that I belong here. . . .

You know what? I see exactly two - TWO - far right folks here. And you continually engage them in conversation of a subject on which you know you're in disagreement. I wonder then, since they are so few, and since you intentionally engage them, why you'd question whether you belong here. You can check out of this thread or this virtual group over this, but realize you'll be perpetuating the very divisiveness that "horrifies" you.

[EDIT] I hope the Green Demon is a signal that your questioning of this place was tongue in cheek. That you know what the 'C' in CPS means and that you know all but the most progressive Christians regard the fetus as an unborn child that should not be killed no matter if she in inside the womb or out.

[Biff]

. . . I completely agree that our country isn’t “healthy enough” to get together and live together in prosperity. I am absolutely horrified by what has happened over the last few years in particular. Our democratic freedoms and values are under great strain, most especially by the far right, from many folks like I see here on CPS. There’s some good reasons why I questioned that I belong here. . . .

You know what? I see exactly two - TWO - far right folks here. And you continually engage them in conversation of a subject on which you know you're in disagreement. I wonder then, since they are so few, and since you intentionally engage them, why you'd question whether you belong here. You can check out of this thread or this virtual group over this, but realize you'll be perpetuating the very divisiveness that "horrifies" you.

[EDIT] I hope the Green Demon is a signal that your questioning of this place was tongue in cheek. That you know what the 'C' in CPS means and that you know all but the most progressive Christians regard the fetus as an unborn child that should not be killed no matter if she in inside the womb or out.

[FredS]

Note that I don't want thunk to leave. I like him and he provides balance with his views. Just stop with the "Woe is me, I wonder if I belong here?" junk.

[Biff]

Note that I don't want thunk to leave. I like him and he provides balance with his views. Just stop with the "Woe is me, I wonder if I belong here?" junk.

[Del]

. . . I completely agree that our country isn’t “healthy enough” to get together and live together in prosperity. I am absolutely horrified by what has happened over the last few years in particular. Our democratic freedoms and values are under great strain, most especially by the far right, from many folks like I see here on CPS. There’s some good reasons why I questioned that I belong here. . . .

You know what? I see exactly two - TWO - far right folks here. And you continually engage them in conversation

My working theory is that Thunk is a volunteer agent, ready to report to Homeland Security about our activities and whereabouts when Donald shines the Trump-Signal to attack. So he keeps a close eye on us. Good Citizen.

(I'm ever-so-slightly serious. I'm still steamed about Obama Admin naming pro-life activists to the top of their homeland terror watch list.)

[tuttle]

Spoken like an Originalist constitutional supporter, maybe even a texualist. I fundamentally oppose that because I don’t believe it’s based in reality or even the setting the Constitution must exist. This goes to the crux of the matter for sure and I’m not prepared to go into the full defense of my position on that here. Nevertheless, just pointing out some of the root differences in our beliefs. Tuttle, you and I don’t agree on much.

Regardless of my own belief on how the constitution should be interpreted, that's how the Dobbs decision was decided, so it is the current reality. And I do appreciate you accurately pinpointing differences in how we look at this.

This place wouldn't be as fun if we agreed on everything!

[tuttle]

You may believe in any God you wish, but you may not force it upon others.

We don't live in a neutral world. No culture is neutral. None.

There used to be a sense of neutrality, but that was because Christianity was the foundation upon what was and wasn't tolerated in society, which meant there was no neutrality then either. The statement you made above only works, ironically, in a thoroughly Christian society that allows for a toleration. The statement you made is a moral statement based off of love and respect for others. Who taught you that? That notion derived from where?

A god will be imposed upon others. Indoctrination, permissibles, taboos, worship. Look around. Our current culture wants to believe that it's been unshackled from the chain of a morally oppressive Christian God, but no unshackling has occurred. They've just swapped the chains (if we insist on that language) of one god for another. It is a rebellion and a rejection of Christianity, but not a rejection of subjugation to a Power. No one kicked a Higher Power out of the Schools or the State. They just switched teams.

There is a reason why you don't see school/community officials actively seeking to organize Bible studies for children in schools and libraries or displaying a cross on every door and window, but you do see them actively organizing Drag Queen Story Hour for kids in those places.

What if after the SCOTUS decided Dobbs Christian imagery was projected onto the White House? Or after a state passed legislation to make abortion illegal they superimposed a cross on their iconic architecture? Would people interpret that as the State celebrating a victory in the name of their God?

What's the difference?