An idea about population planning

[Del]

Well,Troub.... You've obviously worked very hard at this. And your worldview is bulletproof, so I won't bother urging you to wake up.

I am well aware that modern writers have ret-conned history to suit their modern agenda. You've been swimming in their writings, and you have accepted them on faith.

Households can and should rule ourselves. Civil governments should not usurp our natural rights. And when they do, that is tyranny -- even if the tyranny is done under a constitution and legislation. All we need from government are limits on parents who might abuse their children -- for example, by sterilizing them before adulthood for the sake of population control or disordered gender ideology.

Don't confuse contraception (often including infanticide) with population control. Contraception/infanticide is a personal decision. Population control is a government policy, and must be regarded as tyrannical policy.

Governments should not punish families for choosing to have children or not to have children.
=======================
I think you mis-understood my reference to "science fiction technology." In your OP, you suggested that children should be sterilized before puberty and that the sterilization should be reversed by government license to have children. I thought we both agreed that this technology does not exist for safe use on a widespread scale, even if we wanted to adopt such an intrusive and dystopian policy. So I called it sci-fi tech.

Perhaps you believe the technology exists. Doesn't matter.... They'd need guns and guards to keep people from leaving the country before our grandkids are force-sterilized.

[Del]

Well,Troub.... You've obviously worked very hard at this. And your worldview is bulletproof, so I won't bother urging you to wake up.

It's not a matter of waking up, it's a matter of not falling asleep and getting lost in idle dreams or fancies which distort reality. I'm sure that the people who've sold you something which can be debunked on common sense alone, let alone with actual history and anthropology made good money selling you this hook, line, and sinker.

But it obviously wasn't designed to age well. It made good money for a while because it was the only game in town and therefore didn't have to substantiate itself, but now that it's facing actual competition it's easily falling apart.

I'll try to be concise, but there's honestly so much patent nonsense here it's hard to tell when to stop:

*Population control has always been around and was more harshly enforced in the past than it was today. Just as the ideas of superiority of genetics, birth, or lineage have always been around, and were much stronger-held in aristocratic societies in which "birth" rather than personal merit determined one's social standing. Just as genocides based specifically on race or ethnicity and practices such as slave-breeding or royal inbreeding to preserve "pure" bloodlines can easily be documented as well.

*The only reason that racial genocide committed by Hitler or Stalin "stands out so much" today is because it is so against our comparatively modern, 1st world standards. If a Roman tyrant such as Caligula or Nero had believed or attempted to put the same things into practice, it would have been comparatively normal by commonplace standards of the day and age.

(Or even a "late-Medieval tyrant" such as Ghenghis Khan - who allegedly killed 40 million people - more than Hitler or Stalin and with only Medieval weapons at his disposal.)

*Population control is primitive and survivalistic, so naturally it's always been more common in harsher social conditions than it has been in comparatively wealthy, modern societies. Population control exists in the animal kingdom (such as in ant colonies) and therefore doesn't even require any rational understanding or definitions at all - it's pure instinctive survivalism.

*Primitive forms of abortion (or simple infant abandonment) and contraception have always been around. Natural population control, or "pulling out" has always been around and has been mentioned as far back as the Biblical story of Onan.

(I guess the Old Testament has been co-oped by a "modernist conspiracy" now - who were some how able to time-travel 1000s of years into the past in order to plant those verses about Onan "pulling out" in the Bible).

*There was no "sexual revolution" and it wasn't "new". It was simply the product of huge material abundance and fewer direct consequences for actions. (Just as with the hedonistic movements of ancient Greece which inspired "free love" ideology).

I am well aware that modern writers have ret-conned history to suit their modern agenda. You've been swimming in their writings, and you have accepted them on faith.

Please, I'm not buying into this conspiracy theory. I don't see any "ret-conning" - merely the revelation that an obscure variant of Catholic teaching (which itself has "ret-conned" and taken credit for ideas which existed before it) hasn't stood up well to historical snuff, likely due to being too isolated and entropic to stand the test of time when it isn't the only game in town.

You're merely using "modern" to mean anything you want it to. Today is no more "modern" than the days of the ancient Greeks were "modern" to them, and to them, today wouldn't have been "modern", it would have been the future.

We've quoted writers who are decidedly not "modern":

*The writings of ancient philosophers (e.x. Plato, Aristotle) on topics such as evolution, abortion, infant abandonment, birth control, and population control and their varying degrees of support or opposition are not "modern".

*The Greek and Spartan practice of discarding defective infants was not "modern".

*The ancient Roman practice of slavebreeding was not "modern".

*The class and caste systems which were heavily based on perceived superiority or inferiority of lineage were not modern. (Such as viewing members of the "ruling class" to be the direct offspring of gods, or members of the "slave" class to have been the decedents of subhuman mythical creatures)

*Charles Darwin didn't invent genetics (though he probably made a lot of money convincing gullible people that he did). Thomas Malthus did not invent population control. Et cetera.

The only modern revisionism is on the part of the falsehoods you've presented here, as well as falsely equating "modern" with ancient and "ancient" with modern. But the narrative you're presented was always too solipsistic and entropic to stand the test of time and the test of reality, and simply won't be able to find an audience anymore due to the abundance of information and literacy which the Information Age has provided us - other than maybe to David Icke's audience.

And yes, you can pretend that all of the various, unrelated informational sources from ancient to present are somehow part of said conspiracy, but Occam's Razer says that rather, it's your sources which are lacking and seeking revisionism due to being unable to stand the test of time and adapt to a world in which literacy isn't limited any longer to a handful of elite clergymen.

Households can and should rule ourselves.

Right, we need to get rid of the Catholic church (and all organized religion). There's no reason that a system of religious, ivory tower elites and intellectuals should think it's their business to tell individuals and families they shouldn't divorce, use contraception, have abortions, or practice polygamist marriage if they want to. Let people and families do whatever they damn well want.

We were better off in the anarchic, pre-civilizational days of the hunter-gather tribes and noble savages just as Rousseau said, and when that cancer known as Christianity hadn't yet invaded and destroyed the carefree, hedonistic cultures of indigenous people.

There's no way you can reconcile basically arguing for pre-Christian and pre-civilizational anarchy on one hand, and submission to a global institution of religious elites and intellectuals on the other. And no, the Catholic Church was not just a "voluntary members-only organization" for most of history - it was an actual super-state with real, legal power for its elites to enforce their highbrow morality on the "common people" who often lacked such highbrow, hoity toity virtues - whether it was within their wishes or not.

I'm sure a lot of folks think that "them durn popes and priests and bishops are totally out of touch with real people - what with 'em tellin' us we can't get no durn divorce, or use no durn contraception, or have us some casual sex, y'all. Who're them durn city-slickers to tell us real folks what's best for us, y'all?"

Civil governments should not usurp our natural rights.

You don't have any "natural rights" - in practice - beyond what the government (whether it be a Medieval theocracy like that of the Church, or a contemporary civil government) is willing to enforce. Unless you're willing and able to enforce it yourself, and most people aren't.

And no, the ability to have children without any notion of responsibility (when even driving a car requires some demonstration of responsibility) is not a right, natural, artificial, or otherwise. If anything, it's a "wrong" far more often than it is a "right" - not only for the child, but for the rest of society which has to be burdened with it and the selfish and derelict circumstances which allowed it to be brought its material shell into being.

And when they do, that is tyranny -- even if the tyranny is done under a constitution and legislation.

Nope, not tyranny at all. Even if you think it's "wrong" or "oppressive", it's not tyranny. Tyranny does have an actual meaning, but it's a term that's been used to death in popular propaganda so much that barely has anymore meaning than "leftist", "rightist", "communist", "fascist", or "Nazi" do.

All we need from government are limits on parents who might abuse their children -- for example, by sterilizing them before adulthood for the sake of population control or disordered gender ideology.

Not at all, if anything sterilizing them before adulthood should be legally mandatory for anyone to keep custody of their children.

They have no right, "natural" or otherwise to procreate except under conditions which can be reasonably presumed to be beneficial. Anymore than "having a penis" gives someone a "natural right to rape." Just as they've never had that right historically, in which it was the norm for the state (theocratic or otherwise) to directly enforce relationships and marriages by law.

Any view otherwise is what's new and radical, and probably more just the byproduct of the material abundance to do so more than anything else.

Even animals don't, as it's already been mentioned that population control exists in the animal kingdom, and that's a good thing for them as well.

The disordered gender ideology is, of course, not equitable since the purpose is not protecting society from harmful procreation, and it involves genuinely harmful effects on nonconsenting minors beyond merely restricting their procreative ability - which isn't harmful at all if done responsibly.

Don't confuse contraception (often including infanticide) with population control. Contraception/infanticide is a personal decision.

Right, contraception being a wonderful remedy to infantile which would likely occur more frequently for want thereof.

Likewise, it can also include early-term abortion rather than infanticide (as the lack of cognition or development make it quite distinguishable from later-term abortion).

Population control is a government policy, and must be regarded as tyrannical policy.

Population control is not tyranny by any historical definition, nor is it automatically "governmental", since it can be practiced voluntarily (such as the intentional inbreeding of royal families who wanted to keep their bloodlines "pure").

It's liberation from the tyranny of disastrous procreation, if anything. I'm sure that registered sex offenders and rapists probably think that the government "telling them they don't have a natural right to rape and molest children is tyranny and sexual repression" as well - but then again, who cares? Tyranny is probably the government that human waste like that deserve.

Governments should not punish families for choosing to have children or not to have children.

Right, and if the decision to do so is unavailable to begin with due to reversible sterilization upon birth, then it eliminates the trouble of having to do that. Rather, they can simply have their ability to procreate not reinstated.

If people even have to pass a registration and inspection test yearly to do something as simple as drive a car, then the idea that something as intricate as raising a child should require "no standards whatsoever" - beyond having the same functioning sex organs that any animal does - is both rather silly and rather disturbing at the same time. Seriously.

And if one doesn't think it's "the state's business to care about children one way or another", then there's likewise no reason the state should care about child rape or child prostitution either. Hell, if a father wants to prostitute out his daughters for a little extra drug money, why should his natural right do so be infringed by the state? Same if a mother wants to retro-actively abort her child. Stop the church and the state from infringing on the rights of families to do whatever the hell they want.

I think you mis-understood my reference to "science fiction technology." In your OP, you suggested that children should be sterilized before puberty and that the sterilization should be reversed by government license to have children. I thought we both agreed that this technology does not exist for safe use on a widespread scale, even if we wanted to adopt such an intrusive and dystopian policy. So I called it sci-fi tech.

There's nothing sci-fi or high-tech about it. It's probably an improvement over the ancient "tech" of simply discarding unwanted or defective infants upon birth or dashing their heads against stones, but that's about it.

Perhaps you believe the technology exists. Doesn't matter.... They'd need guns and guards to keep people from leaving the country before our grandkids are force-sterilized.

I'm sure they have more guns and guards than they'll ever need to do just that - and since Americans have no right other than to "peaceably assemble", then I'd authorize the guards in question to use every bit of lethal force necessary to quell the rabble-rousers in question. Or hell, just let the 1% or so who want to leave the country leave - let them go move to Iran, or Ghana, or some undeveloped part of the world where they can learn to do without toilet paper, because none of the Western World or even China will be willing to accommodate them.

Just as even China's population of billions to our comparatively few million apparently wasn't able to do much about their 1-child policy, now were they?

Hell, how many Germans actually joined the resistance when their country was under Hitler? Only a tiny minority, and they would've amounted to nothing had it not coincided with the joint American/British/Russian invasion force. The rest were perfectly compliant with it and would've probably been more likely to rat out members of the resistance than to join it.

How many people lived under the tyranny of the Medieval Church from the last days of Rome up until the end of the Middle Ages? About 1,000 years or so before any serious attempt at "Reformation" occurred - so hell, if we could keep a policy like this up for at least 1,000 years since its inception, I'd say that would be a good historical precedent to aim for.

And if you honestly think that the average fat piece of American trailer trash would care more about this than they would who won the local high school's football championship, then think again. Virtue is rare, vice is common. Plenty of people don't actually love their children - their children are just another form of possession and product of reckless biology, and they won't react to any differently than than in the purely reactive, instinctive way they would if someone took away their Xbox.

(Just as how America's revolutionaries were a minority of wealthy, educated, elites with political and military influence - not just the average Joe Schmoe who'd probably just as soon rooted for the Tories and called the Revolutionaries a bunch of "radical unpatriotic traitors".)

So in the words of Ivan Drago, "you will lose".

Ghengis Khan -- You do know the difference between genocide and population control, right?

America has killed over 60 million children in 49 years. We are barbarians.

And I mourn the loss of Christendom (500 AD to 1500 AD). It replaced the tyranny of the Roman Empire. It was replaced by many brutal tyrannies and world wars. If you think era of the Medieval Church was a tyranny, you have been poorly educated.

[tuttle]

Your false and heathen "god" is nothing more than a demon or symptom of untreated madness which you suffer from - the same vein of tyrannical, worldly, and bloodthirsty devil as embraced by the Philistines and their kin - whose head should be severed by the sword of Christ and placed on public display to warn the other heathens and savages of their folly. And the fraudulant teachings you falsely attribute to god are nothing more than the corruption of popular folly and distortions by money-hungry charlatans who modify their teachings solely based on what they believe will earn them money from the fools, of whom it is soon parted.

Even when passages from the Bible are clearly stated which contradict your worldy and heathen teachings you continue to hold fast in the embrace of your own demonology rather than the light of God.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/1%20Cor ... 7/type/kjv

The apostle Paul made it clear that it was better for people not to have children unless they felt sure they had to, because he, like God, understood this to be a source of suffering since the Fall of Man. Sadly his sublime words have been lost and corrupted over the years due to the heresies and attachments of the worldly and the demonic which rules over them and their impenetrable minds.

I am righteous by the virtue of residing in the light - you are confined to the darkness which, for want of light, will continue to consume you for eternity after eternity with nothing left but your on incendiary passions to immolate in - unless proper repentance, assuming that such isn't already beyond you, occurs.

Confess that Jesus is Lord, and God has raised Him from the dead.

I don't have to confess anything at the best of unenlightened, heathen filth, but if you insist. Sigh... Jesus is Lord, God has raised him from the dead, and he's sentenced your and your heathen ilk to an eternity of immolation in which your worthless, false, devil-worshiping "churches" and corrupted Bibles will be incinerated in Abyssal fire much as Sodom and Gomorrah were consumed by Heavenly fire. And much as Christ threw the money changers out of his temple.

All of the lies, heresies, superstitions, misinformations, traditions of men, which you're blathering on about, and falsely attributing to Jesus, God, and so on - due to a combination of your own illiteracy and lack of education, as well as your selfish and cowardly dishonestly which prevents you from addressing or discerning your own lies and heresies - have arisen solely in your own troubled little mind, implanted there by your Lord and Master Satan whom you lack the vision to even distinguish from Jesus or divinity.

And the heathen and worldly little cults and wolves' dens you mistake for "churches" which are nothing more than caskets for the illiterate, heathen, superstitious, and damned to congregate in - dens where charlatans make their bank by selling heathen, false salvation to the illiterate and the gullible who worthy of the salvation promised only to the literate and enlightened.

As they are incapable of ever distinguishing light from darkness, paganism from monotheism, quenching water from parching fire - they are forever to be tormented by the fire of their own inferior passions. I don't have to lower myself to the delusions of the pagan filth anymore and their pretense at ever comprehending Christ or anything that comes from the light - that's the job of a court-mandated psychiatrist from here on out.

I've prayed for you.

[Del]

I don't have to confess anything at the best of unenlightened, heathen filth, but if you insist. Sigh... Jesus is Lord, God has raised him from the dead, and he's sentenced your and your heathen ilk to an eternity of immolation in which your worthless, false, devil-worshiping "churches" and corrupted Bibles will be incinerated in Abyssal fire much as Sodom and Gomorrah were consumed by Heavenly fire. And much as Christ threw the money changers out of his temple.

All of the lies, heresies, superstitions, misinformations, traditions of men, which you're blathering on about, and falsely attributing to Jesus, God, and so on - due to a combination of your own illiteracy and lack of education, as well as your selfish and cowardly dishonestly which prevents you from addressing or discerning your own lies and heresies - have arisen solely in your own troubled little mind, implanted there by your Lord and Master Satan whom you lack the vision to even distinguish from Jesus or divinity.

And the heathen and worldly little cults and wolves' dens you mistake for "churches" which are nothing more than caskets for the illiterate, heathen, superstitious, and damned to congregate in - dens where charlatans make their bank by selling heathen, false salvation to the illiterate and the gullible who worthy of the salvation promised only to the literate and enlightened.

As they are incapable of ever distinguishing light from darkness, paganism from monotheism, quenching water from parching fire - they are forever to be tormented by the fire of their own inferior passions. I don't have to lower myself to the delusions of the pagan filth anymore and their pretense at ever comprehending Christ or anything that comes from the light - that's the job of a court-mandated psychiatrist from here on out.

I've prayed for you.

The devil won't answer your prayers or the heretical ritualism and mindless repetition of words which you falsely conflate with "salvation" - which you've been doing since you bastardized the Great Commission with your heathen and money-grubbing nonsense since day one, even after Christ tossed your ilk out of his temple . I've prayed for you and the Lord will answer mine because I'm not under the reign of some heretical and pagan little cult that loathes intellectualism and progress. The words of "Christ" do not substantiate any of your innovation or conflation of worldly values or traditions with such due to your own lack of literacy, and anyone who can read can easily validate that in as little as 5 minutes. Even the vast majority of views expressed by others on this site don't accommodate your highly idiosyncratic rantings.

So no, you may continue to blindly parrot your own opinions and feelings, or those of your little cult, and directly conflate them with "those of God", though they aren't. But no one of any modicum of intellectual or literacy will by them since they can easily read the works of Luther, Calvin, or any notable "Christian intellectual" with some meaningful degree of comprehension. So take the lies you're pedding to the Branch Davidians or Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints - maybe brainwashed and heretical cults like that who haven't even adapted to the post 19th century world will accommodate you and your inability to listen to anything else.

Bless your heart.

[Del]

Ghengis Khan -- You do know the difference between genocide and population control, right?

Genocide, much like population control, has been about genetics whether presently and historically.

No, it was about tribalism and clashing cultures. Never, ever was it about "genetics."

I gotta ask.... Where did you get these dogmas?

You didn't come up with this yourself. Somebody indoctrinated you in this anthropology.

[Del]

I gotta ask.... Where did you get these dogmas?

You didn't come up with this yourself. Somebody indoctrinated you in this anthropology.

Facts aren't dogma and dogmas aren't facts.

you aren't talking about facts. You are offering very specific opinions about history and reality in general. So please answer my question.

Did you learn this from your parents?
Did you absorb this from a university culture?
Are you picking up this language and worldview from some podcasters?
Did you read some books? Who were the authors?

Your conclusions are garbage, but I'm not blaming you. I really want to know what dumpster you got this from.

If your sources have merit, then you should be proud to share them.

[Del]

Facts aren't dogma and dogmas aren't facts.

you aren't talking about facts. You are offering very specific opinions about history and reality in general. So please answer my question.

Did you learn this from your parents?
Did you absorb this from a university culture?
Are you picking up this language and worldview from some podcasters?
Did you read some books? Who were the authors?

Your conclusions are garbage, but I'm not blaming you. I really want to know what dumpster you got this from.

If your sources have merit, then you should be proud to share them.

Facts are facts are facts.

So you don't know where you got your indoctrination?

It's very possible that you don't. A young person who has been raised in the modern hyper-focus on racism would naturally assume that most human cultures have always thought that way.

You probably learned this in public schools, from teachers who were force-fed this during their formation in public university. A whole generation who have never experienced actual racism, so you are all great experts.

Meanwhile, utter ignorance regarding Medieval European history and never read anything written by the ancient authors -- not even Homer.

Pipeson is currently reading Plutarch, Fall of the Roman Republic, about the lives of notable statesmen during the era before Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire.

It is not difficult to ask the ancients what they thought about themselves -- and see how much this differs from what is being taught to modern youths.

[Del]

Here's a pretty basic source about the Greek and Spartan practice of abandoning infants which either couldn't be cared for or were deemed physically unfit, a fact which has been shared several times before. And that's just for starters:

https://www.history.com/news/8-reasons- ... ng-spartan

Pipeson and I are reviewing your little screed here.

No one disputes that Spartans practiced infanticide. Lots of ancient cultures were pretty gross about this.... Greeks, Canaanites, Aztecs, Cartagenians, Romans.

But no one asserts that this was done in accord with "population control." They just didn't want to care for unhealthy babies. Or they preferred boy-children over girl-children. Or they had demon-gods to feed.

We have no such moral excuse for our present industrial-scale infanticide. The same Democrats who fought to keep slaves are now fighting to kill children. And still spreading racism like it should matter.

[tuttle]

I don't have to confess anything at the best of unenlightened, heathen filth, but if you insist. Sigh... Jesus is Lord, God has raised him from the dead, and he's sentenced your and your heathen ilk to an eternity of immolation in which your worthless, false, devil-worshiping "churches" and corrupted Bibles will be incinerated in Abyssal fire much as Sodom and Gomorrah were consumed by Heavenly fire. And much as Christ threw the money changers out of his temple.

All of the lies, heresies, superstitions, misinformations, traditions of men, which you're blathering on about, and falsely attributing to Jesus, God, and so on - due to a combination of your own illiteracy and lack of education, as well as your selfish and cowardly dishonestly which prevents you from addressing or discerning your own lies and heresies - have arisen solely in your own troubled little mind, implanted there by your Lord and Master Satan whom you lack the vision to even distinguish from Jesus or divinity.

And the heathen and worldly little cults and wolves' dens you mistake for "churches" which are nothing more than caskets for the illiterate, heathen, superstitious, and damned to congregate in - dens where charlatans make their bank by selling heathen, false salvation to the illiterate and the gullible who worthy of the salvation promised only to the literate and enlightened.

As they are incapable of ever distinguishing light from darkness, paganism from monotheism, quenching water from parching fire - they are forever to be tormented by the fire of their own inferior passions. I don't have to lower myself to the delusions of the pagan filth anymore and their pretense at ever comprehending Christ or anything that comes from the light - that's the job of a court-mandated psychiatrist from here on out.

I've prayed for you.

The devil won't answer your prayers or the heretical ritualism and mindless repetition of words which you falsely conflate with "salvation" - which you've been doing since you bastardized the Great Commission with your heathen and money-grubbing nonsense since day one, even after Christ tossed your ilk out of his temple . I've prayed for you and the Lord will answer mine because I'm not under the reign of some heretical and pagan little cult that loathes intellectualism and progress. The words of "Christ" do not substantiate any of your innovation or conflation of worldly values or traditions with such due to your own lack of literacy, and anyone who can read can easily validate that in as little as 5 minutes.

You are directly conflating various tangential "beliefs" and "works" with the "direct words" of Jesus or with additional "requirements for salvation" despite the words of Jesus and other authors not substantiating or mentioning such things. Just as if you and your cult wanted to claim that "not race-mixing with non-whites" or "making personal monetary donations to you" were all of a sudden a new requirement or part of salvation, you'd somehow try to retroactively interpret the "words of Jesus, the Bible, or someone else" to directly referencing such things as well - and that is demonic.

Even the vast majority of views expressed by others on this site don't accommodate your highly idiosyncratic rantings. You're just here to recruit people into your little cult, not discuss pipes or anything else - and are likely disappointed that most here are too smart for that. And the problem isn't with "Jesus", it's merely with you and your cult deludedly falsely conflating your own idle words, thoughts, and innovation with those directly "of Jesus". People just aren't as dumb enough to fall for such lies as would be more to your convenience.

So no, you may continue to blindly parrot your own opinions and feelings, or those of your little cult, and directly conflate them with "those of God", though they aren't. But no one of any modicum of intellectual or literacy will by them since they can easily read the works of Luther, Calvin, or any notable "Christian intellectual" with some meaningful degree of comprehension. So take the lies you're pedding to the Branch Davidians or Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints - maybe brainwashed and heretical cults like that who haven't even adapted to the post 19th century world will accommodate you and your inability to listen to anything else.

Huh.

I've been much too careless in the past with the phrase 'Spirit of the Age'. I'd been using it metaphorically to describe the atmosphere and culture of modernity and post-modernity. This tirade has persuaded me to think otherwise. It's not a metaphor. It's an actual entity. The implications are frightful and yet it fits like a puzzle piece. It's a sobering thing to think about. I'll be less flippant with it in the future.

May Jesus Christ break the hold this wicked spirit of progress has upon you. Lord have mercy.

[Biff]

I've prayed for you.

The devil won't answer your prayers or the heretical ritualism and mindless repetition of words which you falsely conflate with "salvation" - which you've been doing since you bastardized the Great Commission with your heathen and money-grubbing nonsense since day one, even after Christ tossed your ilk out of his temple . I've prayed for you and the Lord will answer mine because I'm not under the reign of some heretical and pagan little cult that loathes intellectualism and progress. The words of "Christ" do not substantiate any of your innovation or conflation of worldly values or traditions with such due to your own lack of literacy, and anyone who can read can easily validate that in as little as 5 minutes.

You are directly conflating various tangential "beliefs" and "works" with the "direct words" of Jesus or with additional "requirements for salvation" despite the words of Jesus and other authors not substantiating or mentioning such things. Just as if you and your cult wanted to claim that "not race-mixing with non-whites" or "making personal monetary donations to you" were all of a sudden a new requirement or part of salvation, you'd somehow try to retroactively interpret the "words of Jesus, the Bible, or someone else" to directly referencing such things as well - and that is demonic.

Even the vast majority of views expressed by others on this site don't accommodate your highly idiosyncratic rantings. You're just here to recruit people into your little cult, not discuss pipes or anything else - and are likely disappointed that most here are too smart for that. And the problem isn't with "Jesus", it's merely with you and your cult deludedly falsely conflating your own idle words, thoughts, and innovation with those directly "of Jesus". People just aren't as dumb enough to fall for such lies as would be more to your convenience.

So no, you may continue to blindly parrot your own opinions and feelings, or those of your little cult, and directly conflate them with "those of God", though they aren't. But no one of any modicum of intellectual or literacy will by them since they can easily read the works of Luther, Calvin, or any notable "Christian intellectual" with some meaningful degree of comprehension. So take the lies you're pedding to the Branch Davidians or Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints - maybe brainwashed and heretical cults like that who haven't even adapted to the post 19th century world will accommodate you and your inability to listen to anything else.

Huh.

I've been much too careless in the past with the phrase 'Spirit of the Age'. I'd been using it metaphorically to describe the atmosphere and culture of modernity and post-modernity. This tirade has persuaded me to think otherwise. It's not a metaphor. It's an actual entity. The implications are frightful and yet it fits like a puzzle piece. It's a sobering thing to think about. I'll be less flippant with it in the future.

May Jesus Christ break the hold this wicked spirit of progress has upon you. Lord have mercy.

Perhaps it's both, Tuttle. Also: agreed.