Worship Music

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Post by coco »

JimVH wrote: 16 Sep 2022, 07:33 I'm wired opposite. There are private moments that music moves me deeply, but during a service, the music is usually just something I have to impatiently endure in order to get to the sermon. It always seemed weird that worship music doesn't have a huge emotional effect on me when other music does.

That'll get you called a bad Christian, too.
Good Christians only listen to recordings of actual church hymns with the piano played by a little, old, white-haired lady.

Good pastors most certainly do not listen to a playlist of all of Rush's studio albums (in order) while preparing a sermon for tomorrow. Nope.
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Post by Del »

Here's how a great worship leader does it:


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Post by sweetandsour »

JimVH wrote: 16 Sep 2022, 07:33 I'm wired opposite. There are private moments that music moves me deeply, but during a service, the music is usually just something I have to impatiently endure in order to get to the sermon. It always seemed weird that worship music doesn't have a huge emotional effect on me when other music does.

That'll get you called a bad Christian, too.
+ me, sort-of. I'm indifferent to praise songs of the last 20 or so years. I'm watching our church service on line this morning, and right at this moment they're loudly singing, almost shouting, "there's nothing that our God can't do!", including multiple verses of "oooh oooh oh oh oh, ooh ooh oh oh oh".

I was sitting once, mesmerized, staring at the worship leader when he asked everyone to close their eyes. He looked at me for several moments, looking at him, and then said, "or, not". I was amused, but I don't think he was amused.
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Post by mcommini »

Well, musical preference in the actual services has been off the table for me for some twelve years now- unless I start deciding which parish I attend by Slavonic versus Byzantine chant ( I actually have no preference for one or the other - both are beautiful). But thinking back to my teenage years, man, contemporary worship songs were bad- like the Seventies vomited all of its kitschiest, most saccharine crap, both in music and theology. And from what I've heard of the modern stuff, it's like the Nineties vomited up its kitschiest, most saccharine crap.

9 times out of 10 it's unlistenable drivel. I'm sure someone, somewhere, might be prompted to worship something through it, but the music is bad. And it doesn't make you a bad Christian to notice it's bad. We're supposed to be giving our first fruits to God- the fault doesn't lie on the one who notices the offering has spoiled, it lies on the one offering up spoiled fruit.

Now, worship is something offered up to God. And in private we all have our own ways of offering up worship. But a church service is not about the individual - and its not something God needs. It is something we need. A church service is, quite literally, a corporate act- we come together as the Body of Christ. And together we need to offer our best. And our best isn't going to be the latest watered down attempt to keep up with a twenty year old meme and "seeker friendly" lyrics- our best is going to be genuine and creative music with solid theology. Our best has, no matter our denomination, already been collected and codified in older hymnals and service books. This is not to say that newer music can't be our best- but it needs to vetted much more rigorously than some moron singing songs on the hill.

Now, if you want to be a bad Christian regarding worship music, don't judge the merits of the music itself. Judge the presentation. One church might be able to hire a trained choir director, another might be relying on the neighborhood piano teacher. Everyone at one church has beautiful voices, while the other can't seem to keep their altos on pitch (the struggle is real!). Judging the second church, if that's the best they can offer, is as wrong- headed as you can get. It's okay to care about the place of aesthetics in worship, it's another thing entirely to be an aesthete.
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Post by tuttle »

I've been leading music for over 20 years and while I don't have everything figured out, I try to pass these general pointers along to folks who've asked for advice.

1) The congregation is the main instrument. If you can't hear each other sing, turn it down. If the people can't sing it (ie. due to pitch or rhythm) then don't sing that song or competently change it.

2) Less is better. One voice singing melody is all the people need to follow. Seven people singing on stage is ridiculous. The only real exception would be a choir (and no choir needs a microphone).

3) Shut up. There is no real need to talk between songs beyond general rubrics (please stand, etc) or a simple prayer or edifying word (and I'd even impose a limit on those for a stretch). Be comfortable with silence. Don't talk in the middle of songs.

4) Keep the lights on. This impacts singing because it's easy to not sing when no one can see you, it also emphasizes that all the action is happening up front, like a concert. Also no fog machine or light show.

I think almost every 'style' could function within those limits though some styles will be hampered more than others. I have other opinions regarding song selection, instruments, skill, the structure of the service, etc, but I really think implementing these would go a long way in improving the music.
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Post by FredS »

Even though I know that CPS does what CPS does, I'd hoped this thread wouldn't turn into a "I hate 'contemporary' worship music" thread. Those always go bad. Then again, I suppose strongly disliking one form/genre or another is sort of my point. The music matters to us. Excepting Jim Van Halen, I think we're wired to appreciate music as much as sunrises. The good ones move us. Just like they move Him.
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Post by Del »

tuttle wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 06:35 I've been leading music for over 20 years and while I don't have everything figured out, I try to pass these general pointers along to folks who've asked for advice.

1) The congregation is the main instrument. If you can't hear each other sing, turn it down. If the people can't sing it (ie. due to pitch or rhythm) then don't sing that song or competently change it.

2) Less is better. One voice singing melody is all the people need to follow. Seven people singing on stage is ridiculous. The only real exception would be a choir (and no choir needs a microphone).

3) Shut up. There is no real need to talk between songs beyond general rubrics (please stand, etc) or a simple prayer or edifying word (and I'd even impose a limit on those for a stretch). Be comfortable with silence. Don't talk in the middle of songs.

4) Keep the lights on. This impacts singing because it's easy to not sing when no one can see you, it also emphasizes that all the action is happening up front, like a concert. Also no fog machine or light show.

I think almost every 'style' could function within those limits though some styles will be hampered more than others. I have other opinions regarding song selection, instruments, skill, the structure of the service, etc, but I really think implementing these would go a long way in improving the music.
A normal-sized church needs exactly zero persons singing into a microphone. One strong, natural voice committed to leading is sufficient.

And there is much more participation, as well. Christians and pagans worshipped like this for centuries.

And although it goes without saying.... when an amplified voice is "not so great," it can ruin a great song and interfere with worship overall.
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Post by Biff »

If you can't worship without electricity, you're not worshipping.
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Post by mcommini »

Del wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 07:49
tuttle wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 06:35 I've been leading music for over 20 years and while I don't have everything figured out, I try to pass these general pointers along to folks who've asked for advice.

1) The congregation is the main instrument. If you can't hear each other sing, turn it down. If the people can't sing it (ie. due to pitch or rhythm) then don't sing that song or competently change it.

2) Less is better. One voice singing melody is all the people need to follow. Seven people singing on stage is ridiculous. The only real exception would be a choir (and no choir needs a microphone).

3) Shut up. There is no real need to talk between songs beyond general rubrics (please stand, etc) or a simple prayer or edifying word (and I'd even impose a limit on those for a stretch). Be comfortable with silence. Don't talk in the middle of songs.

4) Keep the lights on. This impacts singing because it's easy to not sing when no one can see you, it also emphasizes that all the action is happening up front, like a concert. Also no fog machine or light show.

I think almost every 'style' could function within those limits though some styles will be hampered more than others. I have other opinions regarding song selection, instruments, skill, the structure of the service, etc, but I really think implementing these would go a long way in improving the music.
A normal-sized church needs exactly zero persons singing into a microphone. One strong, natural voice committed to leading is sufficient.

And there is much more participation, as well. Christians and pagans worshipped like this for centuries.

And although it goes without saying.... when an amplified voice is "not so great," it can ruin a great song and interfere with worship overall.
And a properly built church needs no amplification no matter the size of the church. But that's a discussion for if we ever broach the topic of architecture.
FredS wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 07:06 Even though I know that CPS does what CPS does, I'd hoped this thread wouldn't turn into a "I hate 'contemporary' worship music" thread. Those always go bad. Then again, I suppose strongly disliking one form/genre or another is sort of my point. The music matters to us. Excepting Jim Van Halen, I think we're wired to appreciate music as much as sunrises. The good ones move us. Just like they move Him.
I think things tend to devolve into "I hate contemporary worship" because a lot of people lack the musical, historical, and theological education to properly explain why they hate it. And because they can't explain why they hate particular songs, they tend to lump all contemporary worship together.

Some things are easy to put your finger on- like that song where a three line chorus is repeated ad nauseum, while the other lyrics are perhaps vaguely about Christ, but could just as easily apply to a boyfriend, girlfriend, or good therapist.

Others are harder. A lot of CWM includes musical swells. And there is nothing bad about a musical swell in and of itself. But it must be deployed properly- the swell should be a natural result of where the music was already going. But in most cases, it's a rather cynical tool in the CWM tool box- the writer wants the audience to feel uplifted, so they implement it right before the chorus or the Bridge Without End, regardless of whether the swell actually fits with what came before. It's bad music, but the average listener comes away with only the vague feeling that the music was trying to emotionally manipulate them.

This is compounded by the fact that there is a whole contemporary worship music industry catering to novelty over quality. Who cares if the music is any good, so long as it apes a popular top 40 song? Who cares if the lyrics are good so long as they tick all the checkmarks market research says churches want now.

Contemporary worship songs can be good. They just require thought, care, and effort- both in the writing and the decision to include them. Hallmarks of good contemporary worship in any age:

1. Lyrics over all. This is the trickiest part. A completely new song must have lyrics written by someone who is both a theologian and a poet- and your average Hillsong is written by someone whose only exposure to theology is some bad biblical translation and whatever drivel is spouted by [insert name of popular mega-church pastor here] and wouldn't know an iambic pentameter if Shakespeare scrawled verse on their hind quarters.

Incidentally, this is where "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs fail. Jesus isn't looking to be your boyfriend, He's looking to be your husband (for the bumper sticker version- Jesus don't wanna be your date, He wants to be your mate). The teenybopper cutesy lyricism isn't a question of milk over meat, it's stagnant water offered in place of milk. If you want to appeal to the eroticism of the Song of Songs or medieval mystics, then by all means, do so- but the song better be borderline pornographic. At the worship service, we're not there to be picked up by Jesus, taken out to a movie, and returned by curfew- we're there to consummate our relationship with Him. The lyrics should reflect that, otherwise lex orandi lex credendi- your worship has created a congregation of shallow relationships with the Lord when they should be searching for an ever deeper penetration of the Lord in their lives.

If you can't write lyrics to save your life but are a very good musician/songwriter otherwise your best bet is to just update an existing song. At one point Bach's Mass in B Minor was "contemporary"- but by staying true to an existing set of songs it has become one of the cornerstones of Western civilization. The "contemporary" songs from my childhood that have stuck with me, that I'm likely to recite, are the ones that basically set Psalms to modern music- "As the Deer", "I Will Call Upon the LORD", etc.

2. Musical quality. This is not about genre - that will be below. The music should be a good example of the genre in which it's written, preferably written by someone who has extensive experience in that genre, though a very good composer can be at home anywhere in the musical universe. It should *not* be written by someone whose only experience is listening to top 40 and only looking to cash in (spiritually, of course- can't save souls with old music!) on whatever the latest craze happens to be.

3. The music should be singable. Here's where genre comes in. Some genres of music are meant to be performed and not participated in. 70s folksy style music dominated contemporary worship well past its expiration date because it was singable while genres that emerged in the 80s were not- aside from perhaps the power ballad. I love rap music- but that doesn't mean that I think "I Love Rap Music" should be incorporated in the worship service- rap is largely about the individual performer's lyrical skill on a particular verse, with perhaps a chorus that others can sing along to, but that's it. An operatic liberreto also fails for this purpose.

Now, #3 is largely a question of where in the service the music comes in. Music in church has a didactic element as well as a melodic and reverential. A particular concept might need to be relayed in a manner that congregational singing can't exactly cover but might be missed during a sermon (especially if your denomination holds the sermon as the most important part of the service and so your pastor pads out 10 minutes worth of actual material into an hour). To use my own church as an example, while we don't have to worry about musical styles, and we sing along with the services for the majority, there are times when a single chanter is the expectation and practice- and these portions are always about explaining the theme of that particular service.

That said, any song that can't be sung by the congregation should only be done if it has a truly didactic element. The solo verses of "Our God Is An Awesome God" don't fit this criteria ( and if you've ever heard a youth group stumbling over the cadence of the lyrics, those parts are indeed meant to be solo)- though I've often pondered it, I've yet to learn anything from "when He rolls up His sleeves He ain't just putting on the ritz". "Watch the Lamb" however, is valuable for this purpose. A solo should be for the edification of the gathered, not simply a platform for Brother Jones to show off "the beautiful gift God gave him".
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Worship Music

Post by Del »

mcommini wrote: 19 Sep 2022, 10:23 Incidentally, this is where "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs fail.

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