Pierre Poilievre

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Post by Biff »

Del wrote: 20 Sep 2022, 20:00
Troubadour wrote: 20 Sep 2022, 16:45 "Populism" has always been left-wing to the core no matter which party embraces it. To the point that most left-wing "political philosophy" is decidedly populist in some way or another. I think this is why some say that Trump isn't a real "conservative".
I admire the effort you must have gone to in order to think that way.
Or just plain ol' simple insanity.
Here I stand. I can do no other. :flags-wavegreatbritain: :flags-canada:
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Post by Del »

Biff wrote: 20 Sep 2022, 22:01
Del wrote: 20 Sep 2022, 20:00
Troubadour wrote: 20 Sep 2022, 16:45 "Populism" has always been left-wing to the core no matter which party embraces it. To the point that most left-wing "political philosophy" is decidedly populist in some way or another. I think this is why some say that Trump isn't a real "conservative".
I admire the effort you must have gone to in order to think that way.
Or just plain ol' simple insanity.
A very specific sort of insanity, to be precise. My good friend Chesterton describes people who cling fiercely to ONE BIG IDEA, and use it to smash all the other truths. It is a very common sort of insanity, and very seductive.

Orthodoxy, Chapter II: "The Maniac" It's a short read. And a great one -- changed my life and how I understand the world.

Chesterton's exact quote (from somewhere else, not this link) is: To such persons I say (in a voice not untinged with admiration), "What a great effort you must have gone to in order to think that way."

Anyhow, Troubador is not entirely wrong.

If populism means "appealing to the mob," then modern Leftism is as old as Emperor Commodus and his policy of "Bread and Circus."
- Promise the mob that they can live without responsibilities ("bread") -- abortion, generous welfare, guaranteed income, free healthcare, student loans forgiven, blame all their problems onto Jews or Christians as scapegoats.
- Promise the mob easy pleasure ("circus") -- casual sex, porn and prostitution, legal cannabis, plenty of illegal drugs.

Elites can control the plebeians and the proletariat thus, until it all falls apart into tyranny, shortages of staple goods, secret police and gulags.

But there is another view of populism -- a governing principle that listens to the people who don't want to be slaves. People who want good jobs so they can provide for their own families. Good schools so their kids can provide for themselves as adults. Safe neighborhoods so their kids can play and learn. Strong borders to stop the barbarian invasions and cartels. This is the populism of the American Founding Fathers, and the essence of grassroot conservatism.

When the elite Republicans weren't satisfying this need, American populism developed the TEA Party, Trump, and DeSantis. Canada saw the Trucker Protest and now Poilievre.

Back to insanity:

If you are an "elite" who believes "Leftism is the One Good" -- then you won't see conservative populism. Those people can't be bought or controlled. They are deplorable semi-fascists. They must be eliminated.

If you are a "prol" who believes (in some vague way) "my Bread & Circus is the One Good" -- then you won't see conservative populism. Those people are imposing their values on me, and I'm such a good person. So they must be bad people. They must be eliminated.
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Post by Del »

Troubadour wrote: 21 Sep 2022, 11:23 Reality isn't insanity, and insanity isn't reality. If you simply don't want to accept the left-wing influences on your narrative, that's not my problem or anyone else's.
Here's the deal: I don't care whether populist policies are "right" or "left," historically or presently.

I want to discern whether the policies are GOOD.

I have a great deal of respect for the populist hopes of a Christian culture. And right now, there is a populist revolt in many nations and cultures because the present policies are BAD POLICY. Imposed by a leftist elite against the common people.

We don't like what they are doing to our families and our children. Young people (such as yourself) are malformed and damaged, and we mean to fix this.... for your benefit and thriving.

You do what you want... but don't say that we didn't try to set you up on the right path.
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Post by Del »

Troubadour wrote: 21 Sep 2022, 14:01 No, it's an issue of rightist elites against the common people who love abortion and and sex outside of marriage - despite some rightist elites sitting up in their ivory tower who think they know better than them and should dictate to the masses what type of sexual or lifestyle choices to pursue.

If "populism" was the be-all-end-all of things, we'd have no need for religion, let along Christianity. Who is some enlightened philosopher king like Christ and those who represent him to tell the common people how to live or what moral choices to make? Moral and life choices should be up to the individuals to decide, not some stuck-up claimant to divinity who thinks he speaks on behalf of God and that he knows better than the heathen rabble.
You silly! We know why Jesus picked 12 Apostles -- and it wasn't because He intended to conquer a continent and set them to rule over 12 provinces.

Anyhow, the Pro-Life Movement is entirely populist. We have never had an elite leadership. We are less organized than Antifa.

And I don't know anyone who holds "populism" as the greatest good or what-not. (Maybe you do. Go talk to them about it.)

Populism just is. It happens (in American history) when the ruling elites of both parties are failing at setting the infrastructure up right for us and leaving us alone to live it. Trump wasn't the first outsider to shake things up, and he won't be the last.

And I don't know where else your rant is going. Christians totally agree with you: Individuals must our own moral choices. No one can force anyone to be holy. And we have to live with the consequences of our own choices.

We need religion to guide us in making good choices and enjoying good consequences. It's kinda nice to have 6000 years of wisdom to warn each new generation of what will happen if they embrace licentious sex, kill their children, and escape their pain in drugs and drink..... because this seems to be the constant temptations of our bestial nature.
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