The Theotokos Thread

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The Theotokos Thread

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The Theotokos Thread

Post by Jocose »

There are many prayers dedicated to the Mother of God. These prayers are intercessory in content, asking her prayers for us.

Just as we pray for others and request the prayers of others, so to do we ask for the prayers and intercessions of the Mother of God and all the Saints.

"Most Holy Theotokos, intercede for us!"
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The Theotokos Thread

Post by mcommini »

And the hymns! Axion Estin says everything that needs to be said:

It is truly meet to bless thee, O! Theotokos. ["Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Luke 1:42), "from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48)]

Ever-blessed and all-blameless Mother of our God [1st council of Ephesus]

More honorable than the cherubim and more glorified than the cherubim [oh, for crying out loud! Read Isaiah and Ezekiel already! If the cherubim and seraphim are given the dignity to bear our God in a chariot and stand before His throne, how much more honorable and glorious is she who contained God Himself within her womb for nine months.]

Thou who without corruption gave birth to God the Word

True Theotokos we magnify thee [Theotokos: bearer, birth giver (the Normans robbed us of the Old English word that would have translated more directly: "cennestre") of God, again refer to Ephesus I- the gist being that deny that the Child in Mary's womb was ever at any point other than God Incarnate is outside of the Faith. Mary is the mother of Jesus according to the flesh, yes. But the Child she carried for nine months is none other than God]
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The Theotokos Thread

Post by Del »

mcommini wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 12:08
Hugo Drax wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 09:12
Del wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 08:20

But at our common core, we're all just Pharisaic Judaism.
'Strewth. Perspicacious, even.

I am absolutely, 100 percent, guilty as charged.

But He loves me anyway, and I can't fathom why.
Speak for yourselves. As for me, I'm just glad I'm not like those sinful Protestants...
I have a feeling that the meaning of my post went over some heads.

Theotokos forgive me for stepping off topic...

There were many sects of Judaism at the time of Christ. Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes are still known of today. There were many more in the northern regions of Samaria and Galilee.

It was the Pharisees who instituted the synagogue system, expanding the reach of teaching and spiritual participation to those who were not within easy travel of Jerusalem and the Temple. It was the Pharisees who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek (Septuagint) so that their diaspora throughout the world could know God even if they did not speak Hebrew. They developed a sacramental system that offered the grace of atonement and participation without having to make physical sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Jesus was a Pharisee. He looked and dressed like a Pharisee. The Samaritan Woman at the Well (John 4) immediately recognized Jesus as an observant Jew who would normally avoid even speaking with a Samaritan.

When Jesus entered a town like Capernaum, He went straight the Pharisaic synagogue and preached there. People addressed Him as "rabbi," the title of a Pharisaic teacher.

This is why it was often a scandal that Jesus and His disciples did not follow every jot and tittle that was taught by the Pharisees. They grabbed and snacked on handfuls of ripe grain -- on the Sabbath! They walked and cured the sick -- on the Sabbath! Such were not the actions of righteous Pharisees.

After the Resurrection, Jesus called Saul (Paul), among the greatest of living Pharisaic rabbis, to be His greatest missionary Apostle. Paul traveled the ancient world, always starting in each city by delivering the Good News to the local Jews in their synagogue. Some rejected his message (violently), but others like the Bereans were praised for being receptive to the message (as evidenced by their willingness to review the Septuagint and verify Paul's interpretation of prophecies).

Paul's way of teaching -- and his habit of writing authoritative letters -- reflects his formation as an elite rabbi. St. Luke recorded even more of Paul's teaching. As a result, our canon of the Old Testament and much of our New Testament are the direct result of Pharisaic Judaism.

Our practice of sacramental worship throughout the world comes to us from the Pharisees.

After the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Temple was destroyed. The Jewish Temple-centered sects and the various minor sects all died out. All that remained were the Pharisees and their synagogues which survived throughout the world.

Among the Pharisees, there were those who did not accept Christ. Their descendants (and their theology) are the Jews we know today.

And then there were the Pharisees and gentiles who accepted Christ and the teaching of His Apostles. These people (and their theology) are the Apostolic Christians of today. The Orthodox of the East and the Catholics of the West.

Modern Jews and modern Apostolic Christians are -- at our core -- Pharisaic Judaism.
Last edited by Del on 03 Dec 2022, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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The Theotokos Thread

Post by Del »

DLJake wrote: 02 Dec 2022, 17:51 Image
This icon introduces a topic that I hoped might enter this thread. Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant. Mary bore God in her womb, just as the Ark bore God in the desert.

When we read the Old Testament the Ark and the Temple, we should ponder what this tells of Mary.

Consider what the Ark and the Temple prophesied about the Perpetual Virginity of the Theotokos. God never does a great work without first prophesying (perhaps obliquely) that He is going to do it:

God commanded that no one should touch the Ark. Uzzah touched the Ark, and died. Don't touch the Ark.

Regard these passages from the Prophet Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 43:1-4 wrote:Restoration of the Temple

The Glory of the Lord Returns. 1 Then he led me to the gate facing east, 2 and there was the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east! His voice was like the roar of many waters, and the earth shone with his glory. 3 The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when he came to destroy the city and like the vision I had seen by the river Chebar—I fell on my face. 4 The glory of the Lord entered the temple by way of the gate facing east.
Ezekiel 44:1-2 wrote:The Closed Gate. 1 Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary facing east, but it was closed. 2 The Lord said to me: This gate must remain closed; it must not be opened, and no one should come through it. Because the Lord, the God of Israel, came through it, it must remain closed.
None shall enter where God has passed through.

And then we consider that the Risen Christ entered the Upper Room through a door that was locked and sealed. It becomes easy to see how the Christ Child was born of Mary without opening her womb. "Like sunlight passes through a glass window."
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The Theotokos Thread

Post by DLJake »

@Del I dig the writings and theological arguments about it. I have a Mary Forward Bias so, I saw it without too much head scratching'.
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