The Holy Land Thread

Where Fellowship and Camaraderie lives: that place where the CPS membership values fun and good fellowship as the cement of the community
User avatar
Del
Deacon
Deacon
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Apr 2022, 22:08
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 514 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 07 Jun 2024, 12:02 +JMJ+

Source: America
Link: americamagazine DOT org/politics-society/2024/06/05/gaza-ceasefire-israel-us-248084
Biden must keep up the pressure for a cease-fire in Gaza [Editorial]
What can Biden do to get Hamas to surrender and return the hostages?

He has no influence over the terrorists who refuse to accept peace.
User avatar
Del
Deacon
Deacon
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Apr 2022, 22:08
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 514 times

The Holy Land Thread

Post by Del »

Image
User avatar
Wosbald
Door Greeter
Door Greeter
Posts: 1241
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 10:50
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Title: Cardinal McElroy: U.S. Catholics have a special responsibility to push for a ceasefire in Gaza [Interview]
Source: America
Link: americamagazine DOT org/politics-society/2024/06/10/cardinal-mcelroy-war-gaza-248112

The Money-Quotes:
Cardinal McElroy: I do think there has been a major shift within the United States in attitudes toward Israel and the Palestinian people. A strong consensus in favor of a free and secure Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people continues to exist and determines American public policy on questions pertaining to the Middle East. But alongside this consensus, there is a widening perception that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, particularly in its siege of Gaza with more than 35,000 deaths, constitutes a profound injustice, which neither American policy nor the world should countenance.

[…]

As a religious leader, I believe that both the utter repudiation and condemnation of Hamas for the October attacks and the condemnation of Israel for the morally unacceptable and utterly disproportionate manner in which they have prosecuted the war in Gaza are fully in accord with Catholic teaching and international law.

[…]

It is precisely the dehumanization of those on opposite sides of this conflict that generates the injustices and atrocities that we are witnessing. In this, we can profit from the profound reflections of Pope Francis in Fratelli Tutti about the dynamic of dehumanization that lies at the heart of war and is the engine of war. The unthinkable becomes not only acceptable but required in a culture of war precisely because we come to believe that our enemy has sacrificed any claim to humane treatment as a result of what they have done.

In the Israeli–Gaza conflict, this dynamic has escalated to a much wider perspective of dehumanization because both the Hamas attack in October and the Israeli siege of Gaza reflect the position that the terrors of war can be justifiably visited upon entire civilian populations with impunity.

[…]

[A] piercing moral reality is that Israel is an occupying military power that has subjected the Palestinian people in the West Bank to a life of continual dehumanization and has erected barriers to a sustainable life for the people of Gaza. Moreover, the settlement policies of both Israel and the United States reflect the active and tacit recognition that occupation is turning into colonization. Settlers regularly terrorize Palestinian civilians and encroach upon their lands. Ministers at the highest levels of the Israeli government endorse the appropriation of the entire territory from the Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea in an expanded Israel that contradicts the most basic principles that led the United Nations to originally approve the creation of the state of Israel. Every pope since 1967 has condemned the Israeli occupation and the injustices it creates on a massive level, injustices that have grown with every passing decade.

[…]

[The] question of international law and the prosecution of war is a test of whether our nation truly believes in the consistent application of international moral norms, even toward our closest allies, even toward ourselves as a nation. It is also a test of whether our nation believes in the most fundamental tenets of the just war tradition that has informed Catholic teaching on war and peace for 1,500 years. One cannot look at the Israeli prosecution of the siege in Gaza, particularly its effective repudiation of the principles of proportionality and the roadblocks to humanitarian assistance it has created, and conclude that these actions do not contravene central elements of the law of warfare and Catholic teaching. To do otherwise is to promote a selective moral blindness that is fatal to the effort to build a just international order and one reflective of Catholic teaching on war and peace.

[…]

Our church should reiterate and amplify the statement that the bishops have already issued for an immediate cease-fire now with the return of all hostages. We should demand humanitarian assistance without obstacles and roadblocks. And we should put continuous pressure on our government to move aggressively to confront the injustices inherent in the illegitimate Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

For more than three millennia, God has marked out Israel and Palestine as a sacred place of faith and presence. As a church and as a nation, we must help to build peace together in this Holy Land.


Image
User avatar
Del
Deacon
Deacon
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Apr 2022, 22:08
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 514 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 10:17 +JMJ+

Title: Cardinal McElroy: U.S. Catholics have a special responsibility to push for a ceasefire in Gaza [Interview]
Source: America
American Catholics have no influence over Israel, and even less over Hamas.

We can't even get our own Catholic President to behave like a Catholic. And we can't tell our Jesuits anything, either.

The best we can do for the cause of Peace in the Middle East is to vote for Donald Trump again. And we will.... but I don't think the editors of America will be happy about it.
User avatar
Wosbald
Door Greeter
Door Greeter
Posts: 1241
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 10:50
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Title: What should Catholics think about Gaza, Israel and Palestine? Catholic social teaching has answers. [Explainer]
Source: America
Link: americamagazine DOT org/politics-society/2024/06/20/catholic-social-teaching-israel-palestine-conflict-248191

The Money-Quote:
Preferential option for the poor, vulnerable, and oppressed

Catholic social teaching’s commitment to the inherent dignity of all persons and their right to life encourages us to be attentive to those who are most vulnerable, and to make assisting and accompanying them in their struggles a primary concern. Both Israelis and Palestinians suffer tremendously in the Holy Land — the two communities have experienced great trauma and violence. Still, the Palestinian loss of life is much higher, and they bear the brunt of an unequal system, which amounts to structural violence and discrimination.

In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Palestinians live under Israeli military occupation with only pockets of Palestinian civil or security control; as a stateless population, they are denied many basic rights. When we each have visited the West Bank, we saw firsthand how the Israeli occupation hinders a dignified life for many Palestinians. In Bethlehem, the place of Jesus’ birth, a large concrete separation barrier and numerous illegal settlements choke off this city from its historic connection to Jerusalem. We have seen Palestinian parents guiding their children through Israeli military checkpoints that stymie freedom of movement, hinder economic stability and cut off access to education and medical care. In the Palestinian territory of Gaza, both before and during the recent assault, an Israeli blockade by land, air and sea has meant that the entry and exit of people and goods is very limited.

Acknowledging these realities and advocating for Palestinian rights is wholly consistent with a commitment to ensuring the rights, safety and dignity of Jewish Israelis. Catholics have a responsibility to hold these commitments together. As we learned from the late Drew Christiansen, S.J., a former editor in chief of America, this is possible by invoking universal human rights and promoting international law, which provides “a guarantee of equity” and “helps rectify the imbalance of power between the actors.”

Upholding the preferential option for the poor is not about “taking sides” but ultimately is about caring for the most vulnerable, identifying root causes of violence and injustice, and working toward solutions that benefit all. This connects to the notion of the “common good” — working toward a reality where social conditions facilitate human flourishing for all, not just some.


Image
User avatar
Del
Deacon
Deacon
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Apr 2022, 22:08
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 514 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 02 Jul 2024, 08:56 +JMJ+

Title: What should Catholics think about Gaza, Israel and Palestine? Catholic social teaching has answers. [Explainer]
Source: America
Link: americamagazine DOT org/politics-society/2024/06/20/catholic-social-teaching-israel-palestine-conflict-248191

The Money-Quote:
Preferential option for the poor, vulnerable, and oppressed

Catholic social teaching’s commitment to the inherent dignity of all persons and their right to life encourages us to be attentive to those who are most vulnerable, and to make assisting and accompanying them in their struggles a primary concern. Both Israelis and Palestinians suffer tremendously in the Holy Land — the two communities have experienced great trauma and violence. Still, the Palestinian loss of life is much higher, and they bear the brunt of an unequal system, which amounts to structural violence and discrimination.

In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Palestinians live under Israeli military occupation with only pockets of Palestinian civil or security control; as a stateless population, they are denied many basic rights. When we each have visited the West Bank, we saw firsthand how the Israeli occupation hinders a dignified life for many Palestinians. In Bethlehem, the place of Jesus’ birth, a large concrete separation barrier and numerous illegal settlements choke off this city from its historic connection to Jerusalem. We have seen Palestinian parents guiding their children through Israeli military checkpoints that stymie freedom of movement, hinder economic stability and cut off access to education and medical care. In the Palestinian territory of Gaza, both before and during the recent assault, an Israeli blockade by land, air and sea has meant that the entry and exit of people and goods is very limited.

Acknowledging these realities and advocating for Palestinian rights is wholly consistent with a commitment to ensuring the rights, safety and dignity of Jewish Israelis. Catholics have a responsibility to hold these commitments together. As we learned from the late Drew Christiansen, S.J., a former editor in chief of America, this is possible by invoking universal human rights and promoting international law, which provides “a guarantee of equity” and “helps rectify the imbalance of power between the actors.”

Upholding the preferential option for the poor is not about “taking sides” but ultimately is about caring for the most vulnerable, identifying root causes of violence and injustice, and working toward solutions that benefit all. This connects to the notion of the “common good” — working toward a reality where social conditions facilitate human flourishing for all, not just some.
Let's humbly start with the fact that the opinions of Del, Wosbald, and America have no impact whatsoever on the conflict. "Good feels" and "bad feels" and "no feels" are all equal inconsequence.

That said, there are two reasons why the Palestinian people are poor, vulnerable, and oppressed.

1) The Palestinians are ruled by an insane and violent group of terrorists, Hamas. Hamas uses all of the region's resources to wage their hopeless war against peace. The Palestinians are impoverished by their own rulers. The thousands of Palestinian Arabs who live in peace and prosperity on the Israeli side are not oppressed or impoverished.

2) The Palestinians are ruled by an insane and violent culture, a nationalism and religious zealotry akin to Nazism. Two generations have been indoctrinated from childhood in this philosophy. They are unable to doubt themselves into accepting peace as an alternative to violence. They are like the American Black schoolchildren who, being taught that America is a systemically racist nation that oppresses and kills them under White supremacy, are unable to imagine that any other life is possible.

There will be peace when Hamas is eliminated and the Palestinians decide that they want peace and prosperity. But first, they must decide for themselves that they will live peacefully with their Jewish neighbors. Just as the Irish partisans decided in the 1990's to lay down arms, quit with the bloody terrorism, and prosper in peace.

Israelis do not want war, nor will they live in fear. They are ready to accept peace as soon as Palestinians are willing to participate.

Until then, Palestinians have chosen poverty and death by allowing themselves to be used as human shields and joining their terrorist overlords. The best efforts of Israeli forces to minimize civilian deaths are noble, but lasting peace is not possible as long as one side still wants war.

And our opinions are just our opinions. Hardly worth having at all.
User avatar
Wosbald
Door Greeter
Door Greeter
Posts: 1241
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 10:50
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Source: Vatican News
Link: vaticannews DOT va/en/church/news/2024-07/holy-land-justice-peace-decries-weaponization-of-just-war.html
Holy Land Justice & Peace decries weaponization of 'just war'

⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯

The Holy Land Justice & Peace Commission rejects the “just war” argument put forward by political leaders to justify the ongoing devastation and killing of thousands of civilians in Gaza.

Vatican City — The Justice & Peace Commission of the Holy Land has decried the weaponization of the term “just war” in the ongoing war waged by Israel in Gaza. Recalling the true meaning of the centuries-old Magisterium of the Church on this issue as explained by the Catholic Catechism, the Commission strongly rejected the “just war” argument advanced by several political actors in Israel and abroad to legitimize the devastation and killing of civilians in response to Hamas terrorist attacks of October 7.

Neither Hamas' attacks nor Israel's indiscriminate response are a 'just war'

“This theory is being used in a way in which it was never intended: to justify the death of tens of thousands” of people, the Catholic body said in a statement. “We cannot allow words like ‘just’ to be mobilized to justify what is unjust, cruel and devastating. We must argue for the integrity of language, because we remain convinced that true justice is still possible if we can hold fast to its promise”

“Neither the attacks by Hamas nor Israel’s devastating war in response satisfy the criteria for ‘just war’ according to Catholic Doctrine,” the Commission remarked.

Principles of distinction and proportionality not respected

According to the Catholic Doctrine, “Just wars must clearly differentiate between civilians and combatants.” However, this principle “has been ignored in this war by both sides with tragic results,” the statement said.

They must also employ a proportionate use of force, “which cannot easily be said of a war in which the Palestinian death toll is tens of thousands of people higher than that of Israel, and one in which a clear majority of the Palestinian casualties have been women and children”, the Commission deplored.

The Justice & Peace body particularly objected the claims of proportionality advanced by those who argue that the Palestinian lives lost in Israel’s relentless war against Hamas may save the lives of Israelis in the future: “In doing so,” it noted, “they privilege the security of hypothetical people in the future over the lives of living and breathing human beings who are being killed every day.”

“In short,” the statement continued, “the manipulation of the language of just war theory is not only about words: it is having tangible, fatal results.”

All wars are a 'defeat' and a 'deception'

Recalling Pope Francis’relentless appeals for an immediate ceasefire and the release of the Israeli hostages, the statement insisted that Israeli right to self-defence in the wake of the Hamas’ attack “must be guided by the principles of distinction and proportionality and comply with international humanitarian law.”

[…]

Peace and justice for all in the Holy Land

Concluding, the statement reiterated the Church’s impassionate appeal for peace and justice for all, both Israelis and Palestinians, in the Holy Land: “The time has come to end this conflict, to prevent its spread, threatening a world war, and to mobilize a language that opens new horizons.”


Image
User avatar
Del
Deacon
Deacon
Posts: 3512
Joined: 11 Apr 2022, 22:08
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 304 times
Been thanked: 514 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 05 Jul 2024, 09:01 +JMJ+

Neither Hamas' attacks nor Israel's indiscriminate response are a 'just war'
[/quote]

When I was in Ireland, their media also insisted that the Israeli response was "indiscriminate." And the locals in the pubs fully agreed. Ireland has recognized Palestine as an "independent state," and no one there is pushing back against this.

When I was able to ask about evidence of indiscriminate attacks, they answered that there is little evidence because Israel is covering up and lying about their efforts to preserve civilians.

I can understand why the Irish people would be sympathetic to the Palestinians. They see Cromwell and centuries of British oppression, all over again.

I'd still like to see more evidence than the claims of Hamas. Even the Irish know better than to believe Hamas. It's just that they don't trust IDF reports, either.
===================================

Anyone with images of October 7 in mind can see why Israel regards this as a necessary war, and why they don't care whether American and Vatican moralists regard it as "just." Personally, I admire the Israelis for showing so much restraint and care for Palestinian civilians.

American Democrats who have opened our border to illegal migrants should be pressuring Egypt to accept to shelter Palestinian refugees. We could give them money and help, rather than building (and dismantling, and rebuilding) a $300,000,000 emergency pier in Gaza -- and taking fire from Hamas.

But Egypt won't take them, because Palestinians have earned the reputation of being intolerable, violent, unwanted guests. Egypt was flooding Hamas tunnels crossing under the border from Rafah a decade ago.
User avatar
Wosbald
Door Greeter
Door Greeter
Posts: 1241
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 10:50
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Source: Crux
Link: cruxnow DOT com/church-in-the-middle-east/2024/07/chaldean-bishops-call-for-two-state-solution-to-resolve-gaza-war
Chaldean bishops call for two-state solution to resolve Gaza war

⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯

ROME — At the close of their annual synod meeting, the Chaldean bishops called on the Iraqi government to do more to protect Christians and their rights as citizens, and they called for a two-state solution to end the Israel–Hamas war.

In a statement issued at the close of their annual synod, the Chaldean Patriarchate of Babylon expressed “deep concern about the international conflicts and wars taking place in the Middle East, especially the Holy Land.”

During the synod discussion, bishops, the statement said, “condemned violence in all its forms” and called on the international community “to protect and affirm peace always, by making a decision to end the destructive war” on people and infrastructure “immediately.”

“They believe that the best solution for the Palestinian–Israeli conflict is to establish two neighboring states that live in peace, security, stability, and mutual trust,” they said.

[…]

The Chaldean Catholic Church, headquartered in Baghdad, held its annual synod meeting in the city from July 15–19, with Cardinal Louis Raphael Sako, patriarch of the Chaldean Catholic Church, presiding.

Prior to the event, participants sent Pope Francis a letter asking for his blessing and prayers for a fruitful discussion and for the wellbeing of both the Chaldean church, and Iraq.

According to the July 19 statement published by the Chaldean Patriarchate, the discussion unfolded in “an atmosphere of familiarity, democracy, and fellowship,” with the bishops and patriarchs who participated touching on a variety of issues.

[…]

In terms of the future of Eastern Christians, the bishops during the synod insisted that faith ought to be what unites the various Christian rites and churches in the country and the region.

“We are committed to each other and to our common destiny with other citizens of the regional countries; concerning about public issues, citizen’s worries, rights and requirements for a decent life,” the bishops said.

They voiced sympathy with the bishops of neighboring countries struggling due to war or poverty, saying the church must develop “a new vision about the future.”

“We need courageous practical steps, to stabilize Christians in their land, preserving their identity, also to enhance their role and presence,” the bishops said, saying, “Unity is our strength and salvation.”

Regardless of the suffering Eastern Christians have endured, they said, “we continue to love our countries and our citizens, and we would like to cooperate with them in spreading a culture of coexistence, respecting the differences of others, and consolidating hope, within a fair and civil society.”


Image
User avatar
Wosbald
Door Greeter
Door Greeter
Posts: 1241
Joined: 15 Nov 2022, 10:50
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Fratelli Tutti

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Title: Pope Francis says ‘targeted killings’ not a solution in Middle East
Source: America
Link: americamagazine DOT org/politics-society/2024/08/04/pope-francis-hamas-hezbollah-israel-assassinations-248502

The Money-Quotes:
Pope Francis appealed again today for the resumption of talks to end the war in Gaza and expressed his hope that “the conflict, already terribly bloody and violent, will not spread even further.”

The pope’s appeal came after the assassinations of Ismael Haniyeh, Hamas’s political leader who praised the Oct. 7 attack on Israel and was involved in ceasefire negations, in Tehran and Hezbollah commander Fuad Shukr in Beirut earlier in the week. Most observers attribute both killings to Israel, though it has only publicly admitted the Beirut one. In addition, Israel also claimed it had killed Mohammed Deif, the Hamas military chief whom it says was the mastermind behind the Oct. 7 attack, in mid-July, which Hamas has not confirmed. In response to the assassinations, Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah have threatened “severe” retaliation against Israel, prompting many governments to urge their citizens to leave Lebanon.

[…]

Francis denounced “attacks, even targeted ones, and killings” saying they “can never be a solution. They do not help [us] to walk in the path of justice, the path of peace, but generate even more hatred and revenge.” He appealed to all sides in the spreading war, “Enough, brothers and sisters! Enough! Do not stifle the word of the God of Peace, but let it be the future of the Holy Land, the Middle East and the entire world! War is a defeat!”

He appealed to all sides to resume talks for a ceasefire in Gaza: “Let us have the courage to resume dialogue so that there is an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and on all fronts, the hostages are freed, and the people are helped with humanitarian aid.”

“I pray for all the victims, especially the innocent children, and express my sympathy to the Druze community in the Holy Land and the populations in Palestine, Israel, and Lebanon,” he said.


Image
Post Reply