The Holy Land Thread

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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 13 Dec 2023, 08:48 +JMJ+
Del wrote: 12 Dec 2023, 15:12[…]

It is a prosecutable war crime to use civilians as human shields. Hamas officials will have to answer for this, if they survive to be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, we know that Hamas is greatly inflating the number of civilian casualties that they have caused …
"Using Human Shields" would only make Hamas responsible for yet-another war crime. It wouldn't absolve Israel of "Firing on Human Shields".

At this rate, they're gonna hafta clear-the-docket at The Hague.

🏛️⚖️
Israel has made heroic efforts to avoid targeting civilians. They are not guilty of any war crimes, nor have they been accused of war crimes by any creditable voice. Basically, just by Hamas. (And Joe Biden, but his staff walked that one back because it is false.)

Meanwhile, Hamas leaders have pledge to die before surrender or capture. And Israel agrees that those terms are acceptable.

For example:
Hamas Officials Begin To Flee Foreign Countries Amid Fears That Israel Is About To Kill Them
The Jerusalem Post reported that several Hamas leaders have left for “an unknown destination, turning off their phones and not accepting calls,” according to a report that cited sources in Qatar’s capital city of Doha.

Separately, a top official left his home in Qatar for the Islamic fascist state of Turkey, the report said.

Another local report said that the Hamas leaders fled their homes because Qatar informed them that the country could no longer guarantee their safety and urged them to leave.

[... Rehash of Hamas atrocities]

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the media late last month that he has ordered Mossad to hunt down and kill Hamas’ leaders “wherever they are.” Netanyahu went as far as to say that even when there was a temporary ceasefire in Gaza, Hamas’ leaders were not exempted from being killed during that time.

“They are living on borrowed time,” added Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. “The struggle is worldwide: From gunman in the field to those who are enjoying luxury jets while their emissaries are acting against women and children, they are destined to die.”
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The Holy Land Thread

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The claim is that Israel is "indiscriminately"* dropping bombs on Gaza and killing thousands of innocent Palestinians.

Ben Shapiro has been defending Israel's efforts to protect civilians. Today, he used math:

Hamas claims that 17,000 to 18,000 Palestinians (depending on who is talking) have died since they started hostilities. Many of these have been Hamas terrorists, but still lots of civilians they were hiding behind.

Shapiro notes that Israel has fired about 22,000 bombs in the last two months. Simple math, that's a kill rate of about 0.7 to 0.8 person killed per bomb.

This is a shockingly low kill rate.... if bombs were being dropped into populated areas, the deaths would be hundreds of thousands. But bombs are not being shot at populated areas. IDF is working hard to ensure that civilians are evacuated first. Of course, the terrorists are also fleeing the target areas. And thus the bombs are precisely hitting military targets without killing people.

Most of the fighting is by IDF ground personnel, putting their own lives at risk, in order to identify/engage armed terrorists and avoid unwanted deaths of civilians, women and children.

We can't trust Hamas's numbers. They don't count civilians apart from terrorists. They even count Palestinians killed by Hamas with those killed by IDF action. They believe the high death toll helps their cause. They inflate the numbers when it suits their propaganda.

All we know for sure is that IDF is taking extraordinary measures to avoid harming the civilians under whom the terrorists are hiding. Such extraordinary care for civilians in enemy-fortified areas has never been seen in the history of human warfare.

Flooding the tunnels will literally flush the terrorists out from under the civilian homes, schools, hospitals, and mosques.

*(Actually, it was Biden who said "indiscriminately." This had to be corrected by White House staff. Which is unfortunate, because Biden usually trips over words with four or more syllables, often saving him from making a fool of himself.)
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Breaking News

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+JMJ+

Source: Vatican News
Link: vaticannews DOT va/en/world/news/2023-12/in-gaza-israelis-attack-holy-family-parish-two-women-killed.html
Two women killed in Israeli attack on Holy Family parish in Gaza

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The Israeli military has reportedly entered the compound of Holy Family Catholic Parish, shooting at anyone leaving the church. The victims are said to be an elderly woman and her daughter who rushed out of the building to rescue her mother. Israel has justified the attack, which is still ongoing, claiming the presence of a missile launcher in the parish.

Vatican City — Israelis have opened fire on Gaza's Christians. Following heavy bombardment overnight of the area around Holy Family Latin parish in Gaza City, dozens are reported dead, according to the Palestinian news agency Wafa, and reports continue to arrive that shooting by Israeli snipers continues during these hours.

From the reports coming in, confirmed by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa, on Saturday afternoon two women were reportedly killed, believed to be a mother and daughter, the latter murdered while attempting to rescue her elderly mother who had been shot by snipers. There are also several wounded, one of them in very serious condition.

The still-ongoing attack was reportedly justified by Israelis who claimed the presence of a rocket launcher in the parish. Despite the Patriarchate's intervention, the operation has not been halted. Israeli soldiers reportedly entered the parish compound and are in the parish square itself from where they are firing at civilians sheltering in the building.


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The Holy Land Thread

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+JMJ+

Title: Gaza, 16th December 2023 [Press Release]
Source: Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem
Link: lpj DOT org/posts/gaza-16th-december-2023.html
Around noon today, December 16th 2023, a sniper of the IDF murdered two Christian women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza, where the majority of Christian families has taken refuge since the start of the war. Nahida and her daughter Samar were shot and killed as they walked to the Sister's Convent. One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety. Seven more people were shot and wounded as they tried to protect others inside the church compound. No warning was given, no notification was provided. They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the Parish, where there are no belligerents.

Earlier in the morning, a rocket fired from an IDF tank targeted the Convent of the Sisters of Mother Theresa (Missionaries of Charity). The Convent is home to over 54 disabled persons and is part of the church compound, which was signaled as a place of worship since the beginning of the war. The building's generator (the only source of electricity) and the fuel resources were destroyed. The house was damaged by the resulting explosion and massive fire. Two more rockets, fired by an IDF tank, targeted the same Convent and rendered the home uninhabitable. The 54 disabled persons are currently displaced and without access to the respirators that some of them need to survive.

In addition, as a result of the heavy bombing in the area, three people were wounded inside the church compound last night. Furthermore, solar panels and water tanks, which are indispensable for the survival of the community, were destroyed.

Together in prayer with the whole Christian community, we express our closeness and condolences to the families affected by this senseless tragedy. At the same time, we cannot but express that we are at a loss to comprehend how such an attack could be carried out, even more so as the whole Church prepares for Christmas.

The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem follows this developing situation with great concern and shall provide additional information as needed.


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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Source: Vatican News
Link: vaticannews DOT va/en/pope/news/2023-12/pope-francis-holy-family-parish-gaza-appeal-civilians.html
Pope condemns attacks on civilians in Gaza: ‘It is war; it is terrorism’

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Pope Francis launches a heartfelt appeal for an end to the “terrorism” of war, and condemns an Israeli military attack on Gaza’s Holy Family Catholic Parish, which killed two Christian women and destroyed a convent of the Missionaries of Charity.

Vatican City — Pope Francis appealed on Sunday for an end to the war ravaging the Holy Land, praying especially for Christians holed up in the Holy Family Catholic Parish in Gaza.

At the Angelus prayer, the Pope said he continues to receive troubling news from Gaza, where “unarmed civilians are the targets of bombings and gunfire.”

Pope Francis condemned an attack on the compound of the Catholic parish, “where there are no terrorists, but families, children, people who are sick and have disabilities, and nuns.”

“A mother, Mrs. Nahida Khalil Anton, and her daughter, Samar Kamal Anton, were killed, and others were wounded by the shooters while they were going to the bathroom,” said the Pope.

“Some say, ‘This is terrorism. This is war.’ Yes, it is war. It is terrorism,” he said. “That is why the Scripture affirms that ‘God stops wars … breaks the bow, splinters the spear’ (Psalm 46:10). Let us pray to the Lord for peace.”

Pope Francis also recalled people in various parts of the world who are suffering due to war.

“Let us not forget our brothers and sisters suffering from war, in Ukraine, in Palestine and Israel, and in other conflict zones,” he said. “May the approach of Christmas strengthen the commitment to open paths of peace.”

[…]

IDF attack on Catholic parish

[…]

Two Christian women killed

[…]


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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Del »

Another story made recent headline news: IDF forces struck a target, killing three Israeli hostages held by Hamas.

Obviously Israel does not want to kill innocents, and especially their own hostage/victims of Hamas.

But Hamas combatants are disguising themselves as civilians and women, and hiding among civilians. I hope that at least one major Hamas leader is convicted by a just Islamic court for the crimes of murdering women and children and holding their own people hostage.

The Christian victims face special hardships, as they have nowhere to flee. Hamas has rid the southern region of Christians, so the last Church community is stuck in the northern combat zone. According to the Order of the Holy Sepulchre, sharing reports from the Latin Patriarch, the Christians decided to stay in place. It is safer to trust the IDF to avoid hitting the Church where they are sheltered than to risk relying on Hamas to provide for them in the south.
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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Source: Times of Israel
Link: timesofisrael DOT com/idf-refutes-claim-it-targeted-sole-catholic-church-in-gaza-after-2-women-said-killed/
IDF refutes claim it targeted sole Catholic church in Gaza after 2 women said killed

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Army says review found no indication of parish being hit or civilians harmed, after patriarchate says mother and daughter were killed by IDF sniper fire; pope condemns ‘terrorism’.

Jerusalem — The Israel Defense Forces refuted on Sunday a claim that it had targeted a Catholic parish in the Gaza Strip, after the Latin patriarch of Jerusalem asserted that an elderly Christian woman and her daughter had been shot and killed by an Israeli sniper on the grounds of the Holy Family Parish on Saturday.

Stressing that the IDF “does not target civilians, no matter their religion,” the army told AFP that it had on Saturday been contacted by church representatives about an incident in the Holy Family Parish, but “no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised.”

“A review of the IDF’s operational findings support this,” it added. “The IDF takes claims regarding harm to sensitive sites with the utmost seriousness — especially churches — considering that Christian communities are a minority group in the Middle East.”

[…]


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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+

Source: FOX News
Link: foxnews DOT com/world/idf-confirm-incident-gaza-church-patriarch-says-2-christian-women-killed-convent-bombed
IDF confirms 'incident' at Gaza church after patriarch says 2 Christian women killed, convent bombed

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IDF officials confirmed to Fox News Digital that an incident took place, claiming the it was part of an anti-terrorist operation.

Dec 17, 2023 — Israeli Defense Forces confirmed an "incident" at the last Catholic Church in Gaza following accusations from the prelate that soldiers shot and killed two Christian women and struck a convent.

Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Pierbattista Pizzaballa claimed in a letter Saturday that two Christian women were killed by IDF snipers inside the Holy Family Church in Gaza during a larger assault on the parish.

"When reviewing incidents that may have taken place in the vicinity of churches in Gaza, it was found that an incident took place during yesterday afternoon (Saturday) in another area in Gaza, near the Latin Church in the Shejayia area," an IDF spokesperson told Fox News Digital in a statement.

The statement continued, "An initial review suggests that IDF troops, who were operating against Hamas terrorists in the area, operated against a threat that they identified in the area of the church. The IDF is conducting a thorough review of the incident."

[…]

The IDF claimed to Fox News Digital that the skirmish took place due to a "threat" that was "identified in the area of the church."

"An initial review suggests that IDF troops, who were operating against Hamas terrorists in the area, operated against a threat that they identified in the area of the church."

The IDF spokesperson said a review of the incident is underway.

[…]


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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 17 Dec 2023, 21:38 +JMJ+

Source: FOX News
Link: foxnews DOT com/world/idf-confirm-incident-gaza-church-patriarch-says-2-christian-women-killed-convent-bombed
IDF confirms 'incident' at Gaza church after patriarch says 2 Christian women killed, convent bombed

[…]
Israel Defense admits and regrets this tragic error. They never wanted this to happen. They are working with the Christians to quickly develop better ways to discern Christians from Hamas terrorists disguised as Christians, hoping to keep Palestinian Christians out of harm's way.

Hamas does not apologize or regret their war crime of operating near a church disguised as civilians, Christians, and even as women. It is their fault that a couple of Christian women running across the compound were mistaken for Hamas militants. Hamas delights in the agony suffered by Christians and Israeli Defense soldiers over the tragic incident Hamas caused.
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The Holy Land Thread

Post by Del »

This is grim reading.

I received this from the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre, who received it from the Latin Patriarch, Successor of St. James the Apostle.

I share this so brothers here can evaluate news stories filtered through the secular media.

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