The Pope Francis Thread

[Del]

There's simply no way to make a hard & fast separation between the 1) the Person and 2) the Office — no way to say that the Person is magisterially speaking with "weaponized ambiguity" whilst the Office (i.e. the Spirit) is not.

I missed this the first time, but I think I see your error.

Non-Catholics often have the error of believing that "Papal Infallibility" means that the Pope can just make any rule or change that he wants, no matter what Scripture and Tradition have taught us for centuries.

It seems that Pope Francis also holds this error. And yourself.
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The Office of the Pope is a matter of great study, tradition, and dispute. Certain limited powers of the Papacy were defined, under specific circumstances, by Vatican I. The Authority of the Keys is a power to preserve. It does not have any power to make changes.

Meanwhile, we can go through history and evaluate each Pope as to how well or poorly he fulfilled the Office. We fondly remember how Peter denied Christ three times, and how Paul had to rebuke Peter for failing to recognize the Gentile Christians as full members of the Church.

There have been bad popes before, and great popes before. There is a reason why we have a "Pope St. Leo the Great" and a "Pope St. John Paul the Great." These titles were earned by popular acclaim, because they were great men and great popes.

The Holy Spirit protects the Church, even when popes go wrong. I'm not saying that Pope Francis is another Alexander (Borgia). But you will live long enough to see how Francis' legacy is evaluated. No one will be calling him "Francis the Great."
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St. Paul set the example that we must follow. He speaks boldly to a pagan world that rejects chastity as a virtue. St. Paul demands that we reject sexual immorality. It is hard to say, but it is clear truth. Within a few generations, this message won over the ancient pagan culture.

We live in such a pagan culture now. We must do the same. Speaking truth is the only charity.

9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

I missed this the first time, but I think I see your error.

Non-Catholics often have the error of believing that "Papal Infallibility" means that the Pope can just make any rule or change that he wants, no matter what Scripture and Tradition have taught us for centuries.

It seems that Pope Francis also holds this error. And yourself.
==============================
The Office of the Pope is a matter of great study, tradition, and dispute. Certain limited powers of the Papacy were defined, under specific circumstances, by Vatican I. The Authority of the Keys is a power to preserve. It does not have any power to make changes.

[…]

No, I don't hold the erroneous interpretation of Papal Infallibility you cite.

But lemme tell ya what I do hold. I hold that the Authority of the Keys is just that: Authoritative.

Which means that, whatever Fiducia Supplicans may be, its authoritativeness means that it certainly will not be:

• "scandalous"
• "falsely spoken"
• "weaponizedly ambiguous"
• "unsupportable"
• "doubly spoken"
• "faithless"

Talk about "errors". These, right there, are errors.

[Jocose]

+JMJ+

I missed this the first time, but I think I see your error.

Non-Catholics often have the error of believing that "Papal Infallibility" means that the Pope can just make any rule or change that he wants, no matter what Scripture and Tradition have taught us for centuries.

It seems that Pope Francis also holds this error. And yourself.
==============================
The Office of the Pope is a matter of great study, tradition, and dispute. Certain limited powers of the Papacy were defined, under specific circumstances, by Vatican I. The Authority of the Keys is a power to preserve. It does not have any power to make changes.

[…]

No, I don't hold the erroneous interpretation of Papal Infallibility you cite.

But lemme tell ya what I do hold. I hold that the Authority of the Keys is just that: Authoritative.

Which means that, whatever Fiducia Supplicans may be, its authoritativeness means that it certainly will not be:

• "scandalous"
• "falsely spoken"
• "weaponizedly ambiguous"
• "unsupportable"
• "doubly spoken"
• "faithless"

Talk about "errors". These, right there, are errors.

[Del]

We respect the war-boast of the Orthodox. You have kept the Apostolic Faith despite the 1000-year schism that has separated you from the biblical promise that Jesus made to Peter. The Holy Spirit has not abandoned you.

Among faithful Catholics, there are many whispers that Francis's works are going to cause another schism. I don't think so myself, as the Catholic faithful (in my vicinity, at least) are rallying together. Francis will have to sack a mass of bishops to accomplish his own schism, and that doesn't seem likely to happen.

But there is a trickle of faithful Catholics moving toward Orthodoxy or SSPX, seeking a stable refuge. This is more noticeable in Catholic dioceses with progressive bishops who share the enthusiasms of Pope Francis, suppressing reverence in worship (especially Latin Masses) and blessing sins.

Obviously we all want to reunify the Apostolic Church, repair the old schisms and heal the wounds to the Mystical Body of Christ. Francis is not aiding this healing.

[Jocose]

https://x.com/ShaneSchaetzel/status/173 ... 44759?s=20

While the worldwide Catholic crisis is a schism de facto (in fact but unofficial), focused on (but not limited to) the blessing of same-sex couples. A de facto schism does not become de juris (in law or official), until communion with the pope is declared broken by some official act. This has not happened (yet).

This latest map reflects the implication of the declaration of Eastern Catholic bishops that Fiducia Supplicans only applies to the Latin Rite. This effectively puts all Eastern Catholic rites outside the influence of Fiducia, thus putting them firmly in the resistance category.

[Hovannes]

Sometimes it's good to experience a "Satan get behind me" moment like St Peter the first pope did.
It makes a guy humble.
Being pope is a tough job. Always has been.

[Jocose]

https://x.com/ShaneSchaetzel/status/174 ... 80560?s=20

FRANCIS HAS DESTROYED ECUMENICAL RELATIONS WITH THE ORTHODOX CHURCHES...
Metropolitan Hilarión: after ' #FiduciaSupplicans ' it is no longer possible to talk about reunification between Catholics and Orthodox.

[Del]

https://x.com/ShaneSchaetzel/status/174 ... 80560?s=20

FRANCIS HAS DESTROYED ECUMENICAL RELATIONS WITH THE ORTHODOX CHURCHES...
Metropolitan Hilarión: after ' #FiduciaSupplicans ' it is no longer possible to talk about reunification between Catholics and Orthodox.

Praying that this is just a temporary set-back in the moral integrity of the Catholic Church, Western civilization in general, and ecumenical reunification of Apostolic Christians.

It has only been a week since the poorly written document was published. Francis could still speak up clearly and with authority about how he means to uphold ancient, biblical faith and moral teaching. Something as clear as the young priest said last Sunday: "A priest cannot bless 'irregular situations' or 'sinful relations' without himself committing a grave sin."

Francis has never done this before.... but he could, if he allows the Holy Spirit to guide him.

[Hovannes]

The Babylon Bee reports:
https://babylonbee.com/news/pope-franci ... tive-views

[Del]

+JMJ+

"Disgusting??!? Which part?

• The part where they emphasized the Dynamic aspect of the Church (rather than the "Semper Idem" aspect)?
• Or the part where they had the temerity to advertise in The TImes?

The sin of public scandal, you Christmas Troll.

I'm not seein' it.

Some German bishops ordering their priests to scour the highways & byways to bless every anomalamorous sitch they can find is scandalous.

And some African (and American?) bishops ordering their priests to ignore Fiducia Supplicans is equally scandalous.

But what America did here is sound Catholic praxis.

Okay... I finally looked up praxis. I had been waiting for you to use it in context that makes sense... or for anyone else anywhere to use praxis in a sentence.

PRAXIS
Noun

1 The practical application of any branch of learning.
2 (philosophy) The synthesis of theory and practice, without presuming the primacy of either.
3 Custom or established practice.
4 An example or form of exercise, or a collection of such examples, for practice.

The Jesuits at America bought an ad in []The New York Times[/i] advertising that gay sex is no longer a sin and same-sex marriage is real and holy thing now -- because "The Catholic Church is Changing." You know.... so please buy America to get the "smart" Catholic news.

This is exactly the opposite of "sound Catholic praxis."

It is more like the practice of Satan since the Serpent in the Garden.... twisting the truth hard to tempt others into sin.

And it's kinda why we need to suppress the Jesuits again, perhaps re-forming the Order according to the example of Ignatius. They dishonor the courageous missionaries and holy martyrs of their past. They urge us to vote for Democrats, who full-throatedly support (with public parades) same-sex relationships, trans-ing the kids, and killing the babies. Shun them!