The Pope Francis Thread

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The Pope Francis Thread

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+JMJ+

Source: USCCB / CNS
Link: usccb DOT org/news/2023/cardinal-says-vatican-not-moving-toward-accepting-gay-marriage
Cardinal says Vatican is not moving toward accepting gay marriage

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Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, insists that the Vatican's permission to offer informal blessings to same-sex couples is not a step toward recognizing gay marriage, and he affirms that bishops have a right and duty to offer their priests guidance on giving the blessings in certain cultures and contexts.

VATICAN CITY (CNS) — The Vatican's affirmation that a priest can give an informal blessing to a gay couple who asks for one is not a first step toward the Catholic Church recognizing same-sex marriages, said Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.

"Those who say so either have not read the text or have 'bad blood,' if you will pardon the expression. The statement clearly and ad nauseam states that these blessings are non-ritualized so that they are not interpreted as a marriage," the cardinal told the Spanish newspaper ABC in an interview published Dec. 25.

The doctrinal dicastery's document, Fiducia Supplicans ("Supplicating Trust"), which was approved by Pope Francis, said that while the church "remains firm" in teaching that marriage is only a life-long union between a man and a woman, in certain circumstances priests can give non-sacramental, non-liturgical blessings to "couples in irregular situations and same-sex couples without officially validating their status or changing in any way the Church's perennial teaching on marriage."

Several bishops' conferences in Africa and elsewhere reacted strongly against the document, which was published Dec. 18, and issued statements forbidding their priests from offering such blessings.

While Fernández insisted the document "upholds with great clarity and simplicity the Catholic teaching on marriage and sexuality," he said bishops have a right and duty to advise their priests on the possible use of such blessings.

"What they (African bishops) raise is the inappropriateness of performing blessings that could easily be confused with a legitimization of an irregular union in their regional contexts," he said.

In addition, he said, several African nations have laws that "penalize with imprisonment the mere fact of declaring oneself gay," so it would be difficult to imagine a priest in those countries giving a gay couple a blessing.

"In reality," the cardinal said, "it is up to each local bishop to make this discernment in his diocese or in any case to give further guidance."

In other situations, Fernández said, people reacting negatively to the document simply did not read it.

"The central theme of the document is the value of 'non-liturgical,' 'non-ritualized' blessings, which are not a marriage, they are not an 'approval' or a ratification of anything," he said. "They are simply the response of a pastor to two people who ask for God's help. And, in this case, the pastor does not set any conditions."

Blessing two people who ask for God's help is not accepting their relationship as a marriage, "nor is it a ratification of the life they lead, nor is it an absolution," the cardinal said. "It is a simple gesture of pastoral closeness that does not have the same demands that a sacrament has."

"If a priest gives this kind of simple blessing, he is not a heretic, he is not ratifying anything, nor is he denying the Catholic doctrine on marriage," Fernández said.


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The Pope Francis Thread

Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 28 Dec 2023, 13:17 +JMJ+

Source: USCCB / CNS
Link: usccb DOT org/news/2023/cardinal-says-vatican-not-moving-toward-accepting-gay-marriage
Cardinal says Vatican is not moving toward accepting gay marriage

⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯

Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, insists that the Vatican's permission to offer informal blessings to same-sex couples is not a step toward recognizing gay marriage, and he affirms that bishops have a right and duty to offer their priests guidance on giving the blessings in certain cultures and contexts.

VATICAN CITY (CNS) — The Vatican's affirmation that a priest can give an informal blessing to a gay couple who asks for one is not a first step toward the Catholic Church recognizing same-sex marriages, said Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Ahoy, Wozzie!

I haven't been ignoring this.... just busy. Still busy -- I'm off to make jambalaya for a home-school family with 8 kids. (Actually, I'm just borrowing some grandkids to play with. Sue me.)

This is what I wanted to see. A prompt statement from Francis and Fernandez under a clear headline. It won't be enough to reverse the damage, but it is the best we can expect from the situation.

National Catholic Reporter is not walking back their spin that homosexual relations are okay now.

Vatican document represents Pope Francis' pastoral revolution for gay Catholics

How big a deal is the new Vatican document on same-sex blessings?

The basic problem is that Francis and NCR do not accept the basic problem.... These experts think that Catholics are a bunch of bigots, that we are selectively hating on homosexuals while ignoring other sins. Catholics need to repent and get with the worldly program.

The reality is that the LGBT agenda -- with their Pride Parades and groomers in our schools -- are rapidly clawing our children into lives of sin and self-harm. We just had to clean up a mess the homosexual priests and child abusers. Now they want us to welcome that same lust into our communities and act like it's all just fine and normal now.

What we want is for the world to hate us and persecute us for standing up for natural morality, marriages and families. Jesus promised that the world would hate us as the world hated Him. Our leaders are cheating us of our suffering now, and leading us into eternal suffering as a reward.
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The Pope Francis Thread

Post by Jocose »

https://onepeterfive.com/pope-francis-r ... it-church/

Pope Francis’ Reported Words: “I Might Go Down in History for Having Split the Catholic Church”
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The Pope Francis Thread

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+JMJ+
Jocose wrote: 01 Jan 2024, 09:35 onepeterfive DOT com/pope-francis-reported-words-might-go-history-split-church/

Pope Francis’ Reported Words: “I Might Go Down in History for Having Split the Catholic Church”
Not sure how significant this is s'posed to be, considering that this is the same Pope who parrhesiastically said:
"I am not afraid of schisms, [but] I pray that they do not happen."

LINK: ncronline DOT org/vatican/francis-warns-ideology-infiltrating-some-quarters-us-catholic-church
:confusion-shrug:


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The Pope Francis Thread

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Jocose wrote: 01 Jan 2024, 09:35 https://onepeterfive.com/pope-francis-r ... it-church/

Pope Francis’ Reported Words: “I Might Go Down in History for Having Split the Catholic Church”
Fortunately, no one seems to want to lead a schism. We just want a better pope, and time is on our side.

Francis isn't a sharp one for self-reflection nor understanding the world-wide Church that he leads. He lives in a smallish ideological bubble. There might be a little schism of modernist First World Catholics who leave when the next pope helps the Vatican back onto its feet.... but most of those people just wander out the door without caring about being called Catholic on the outside.

Francis really hasn't been all that bad, historically speaking. It's just that we have been spoiled with wise and holy popes for the last 500 years, and especially over the last 35 years with John Paul the Great and Benedict.
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The Pope Francis Thread

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https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/light ... e-francis/

Lightning destroyed key, hand of St. Peter statue in Argentina on Pope Francis’ birthday

The Lepanto Institute and CatholicVote confirmed that a lightning strike blasted off the right hand and key of a statue of St. Peter north of Buenos Aires on December 17.

SAN NICOLÁS DE LOS ARROYOS, Argentina (LifeSiteNews) — Multiple journalism outlets have confirmed that lightning demolished the keys and blessing hand of a statue of St. Peter in Argentina on December 17, Pope Francis’ birthday and the day before the publication of the Vatican document Fiducia Supplicans endorsing homosexual “blessings.”

The Lepanto Institute reported on Sunday that it sent an unnamed individual to the Sanctuary of Our Lady of the Rosary of San Nicolás, north of Buenos Aires, where the statue flanks the shrine, to take pictures and confirm the lightning strike originally reported on December 26 by Italian blogger Andrea Cionci.

“The Dec. 17 lightning strike is CONFIRMED,” the Lepanto Institute shared on X, noting that lightning struck the statue despite the fact that multiple lightning rods are located about 30 to 40 feet above it, as pictures show.

Image

Some people are questioning the veracity of the claims that a statue of St. Peter in Argentina was struck by lightning on Dec. 17, pulverizing the halo, key, and blessing hand.

The Lepanto Institute sent someone to the location to take pictures and confirm the events. The Dec.… pic.twitter.com/XsibMGej78

— Lepanto Institute (@LepantoInst) December 31, 2023

CatholicVote also sent a journalist to the scene, who likewise confirmed that lightning struck the statue on December 17, “obliterating” the keys in the St. Peter statue’s right hand. The news outlet noted that the multiple surrounding lightning rods make the incident “highly improbable.”

Cionci and others have emphasized that both the date on which the strike occurred and where it took place are remarkable. The statue is located in the Buenos Aires Province about 250 kilometers northwest of the city of Buenos Aires, where Francis was born, raised, and was archbishop.

“What is striking, in fact, is that the event occurred on Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s birthday, the day before the publication of the Fiducia supplicans declaration which opens up blessings for homosexual couples,” wrote Cionci.

The Italian blogger also pointed out that St. Peter is traditionally depicted holding two keys: a golden key representing the pope’s authority to “bind and loose” in heaven and a silver key representing his authority to “bind and loose” on earth. This authority was given by Christ Himself, as recorded in Matthew 16:19: “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

“Strange that the statue only held one key, it seems,” Cionci remarked.

Traditionalist Catholic commentator Anthony Stine clarified on Monday that according to independent researchers, while lightning indeed blasted the statue’s keys and right hand on December 17, the statue’s halo has been missing since September 2018, contrary to the above mentioned reports.

“Pictures from before September 2018 show the statue with a halo. But pictures from late September 2018 show him without the halo,” Stine reported. A photo shared by Catholic blogger Ronald Conte shows the statue without the halo but with the key intact. Conte originally thought that photos of the statue after the strike were “fake.”

Stine suggested that the timing of the halo’s destruction is meaningful because on September 18, 2018, Francis promulgated the apostolic constitution Episcopalis Communio, which “announces Francis’ intention to tear down the Catholic Church as it had existed, and to replace it with his synodal church.”

Stine further noted that some observers described Episcopalis Communio as the implementation of Francis’ apostolic exhortation Evangelii gaudium, in which he expressed his intention “to profoundly reshape all the ecclesial structures, so that they become more missionary.”

The commentator also weighed in on the significance of the destruction on December 17, pointing out that “not only is the key missing, but the hand we’re used to associating with the teaching authority in sacred art is missing. It’s just gone. No other real damage to the statue either.”

“It’s almost as if symbolically the papacy itself is fine. The office is fine,” he continued. “Peter still has authority as an office, but this particular teacher has no authority any more. That’s kind of the gut feeling I had looking at this statue in context.”

According to Cionci, the priests of the sanctuary have acknowledged the lightning strike on the statue but disagree with his take on the event, stating, “The Sanctuary does not agree with the interpretation that has been given with respect for the damage produced in the image of the apostle Saint Peter.”

The Buenos Aires Herald reported on December 17 that a “severe thunderstorm” swept the Buenos Aires province early that morning. In his video commentary, Stine showed a weather radar map confirming that the storm affected the area of San Nicolás de los Arroyos, where the Sanctuary of Our Lady of the Rosary is located.
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The Pope Francis Thread

Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Jocose wrote: 03 Jan 2024, 10:28 lifesitenews DOT com/news/lightning-st-peter-statute-pope-francis/

Lightning destroyed key, hand of St. Peter statue in Argentina on Pope Francis’ birthday

The Lepanto Institute and CatholicVote confirmed that a lightning strike blasted off the …

[…]
Hmmm … Lemme look this up …

:techie-studyinggray:
The Bible wrote:Even if an angel-from-heaven were to tell ya that Francis ain't the Pope, don't listen. Rather, just stick with the Faith Once Delivered.
Thanx, St Paul!

:handgestures-thumbup:


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Fratelli Tutti

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+JMJ+

Source: Crux
Link: cruxnow DOT com/vatican/2024/01/amid-row-over-same-sex-blessings-pope-laments-splitting-into-groups-in-the-church
Amid row over same-sex blessings, Pope laments ‘splitting into groups’ in the Church

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ROME — Pope Francis on the feast of the Epiphany lamented the sharp division among Catholics of differing views, saying believers must imitate the three wise men in putting God at the center of their lives, rather than their own ideas of the faith.

Speaking to attendees of his Jan. 6 Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica, the pope said that as members of the church, “instead of splitting into groups based on our own ideas, we are called to put God back at the center.”

“We need to abandon ecclesial ideologies to find the meaning of holy mother church, the ecclesial attitude. Ecclesial ideologies no, ecclesial vocation yes,” he said, saying, “The Lord, not our own ideas or our own projects,” must be the focus.

“Let us set out anew from God; let us seek from him the courage not to lose heart in the face of difficulties, the strength to surmount all obstacles, the joy to live in harmonious communion,” he said.

The pontiff’s comments came amid a burgeoning controversy over a recent Vatican declaration permitting non-liturgical blessings of same-sex unions, which has revealed strong divisions within Catholicism.

Pope Francis spoke during his Mass for the Catholic feast of the Epiphany, which commemorates the biblical narrative when the three Magi, also called the Three Wise Men or the “Three Kings,” follow a star that leads them to Jesus and the discovery of his identity as the Messiah.

In Italy, the feast also marks the commemoration of what is known in Italian folklore as La Befana, an old witch who delivers gifts to children throughout the country. The holiday is celebrated on the eve of the Epiphany, and is reminiscent of the gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh given to Jesus by the Magi.

Pope Francis in his homily said the Magi are a reflection of the world’s peoples who are “journeying in search of God … of all those who were lost and now hear the beckoning of a friendly voice.”

[…]

Francis then lamented that the church is often split into groups based on various interpretations of the faith and stressed the importance of communion, saying God must be at the center of faith, rather than one’s own ideas about it.

Noting how the Magi also completed a journey on earth, the pope said they chose to follow God’s sign in the star, and ultimately their journey culminates in finding God “in man, in a little Child lying in a manger.”

“That is where the God who is infinitely great has revealed himself: in the little, the infinitely little,” he said, and stressed the importance of journeying in the world as witnesses to the Gospel.

Jesus was given to the world, Pope Francis said, “not to warm our nights, but to let rays of light break through the dark shadows that envelop so many situations in our societies.”

In this sense, he said God is found “not by basking in some elegant religious theory, but by setting out on a journey, seeking the signs of his presence in everyday life, and above all in encountering and touching the flesh of our brothers and sisters,” just as the Magi themselves found a real child.

“This is important: to find God in flesh and bone, in the faces of those we meet each day, and especially in the poor,” Francis said, saying this encounter with God opens faithful to something bigger and “makes us change our way of life and transform our world.”

[…]

Like the Magi, believers are also called to “bow our heart and bend our knee in worship: to worship the God who comes in littleness, who dwells in our homes, who dies for love,” the pope said, urging faithful to “rediscover our taste for the prayer of adoration.”

“We have lost the attitude of adoring, we have lost the ability to adore…. Let us acknowledge Jesus as our God and Lord, and adore,” he said.

Francis closed his homily urging believers to pray for the grace to “never to lose courage: the courage to be seekers of God, men and women of hope, intrepid dreamers, gazing at the heavens and journeying along the roads of this world, in order to bring to all the light of Christ, which illumines every man and woman.”

[…]


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The Pope Francis Thread

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I keep getting these visions of Francis and Joe grabbing some cones in Vatican City in October 2021
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The Pope Francis Thread

Post by Del »

Hovannes wrote: 07 Jan 2024, 13:41 I keep getting these visions of Francis and Joe grabbing some cones in Vatican City in October 2021
Step 1: Institute divisive policies to advance your controversial & ideological agenda.
Step 2: Call your opponents names... like "extremists" and "old people seeking nostalgia."
Step 3: Wonder why you aren't gaining support with your opponents.
Step 4:Institute more divisive policies.
Step 5: Wonder why even your supporters are turning away.
Step 6: Call us all names again... like "insurrectionists" and "ideologues."

Complicated game for us pawns.
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