Pope Takes Bishop

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Post by Del »

Jocose wrote: 14 Nov 2023, 07:35 https://x.com/ProtecttheFaith/status/17 ... 30216?s=20

Leftist English tabloid labels Bishop Strickland 'social media crazed' as reason Bergoglio sacked him

Pope Francis fires social media crazed bishop in move critics call 'total war'

Bishop Strickland's media posts were uniformly mild-mannered, expressed with Christian charity

https://mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/pope- ... n=sharebar
I read the linked article, ignoring the stupid editorial. Everyone who reads CNN knows that Francis yanked Strickland because he rebuked Democrat Biden over abortion.

Article says Bishop Strickland thinks that one of the reasons why Pope Francis removed him is that Strickland refused to follow Francis's orders on suppressing the Latin Mass. "I can't starve out a part of my flock."

This is consistent with the treatment of French Bishop Rey, who is forbidden to ordain any priests as too many were requesting permission to celebrate the Latin Mass.
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Post by Jocose »

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/terry ... -of-faith/

Terry Barber reveals US nuncio Cardinal Pierre told Bishop Strickland ‘there is no deposit of faith’

Terry Barber said that Christophe Pierre, Pope Francis’ apostolic nuncio to the US, told Bishop Strickland, ‘You need to stop talking about the deposit of faith. There is no deposit of faith.’



“Bishop Strickland communicated to me that … Pierre confronted [him] and said, ‘Look, the Holy Father is watching you. You need to stop talking about the deposit of faith. There is no deposit of faith.’”

“Well, you can imagine how shocking that is to hear a nuncio say there’s no deposit of faith, because if you don’t believe in the deposit of faith, you’re not Catholic,” continued Barber. “That’s not just my opinion. That’s the Church teaching.”
The views expressed here are either mine or not my own, not sure.
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Pope Takes Bishop

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Jocose wrote: 15 Nov 2023, 06:23 https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/terry ... -of-faith/

Terry Barber reveals US nuncio Cardinal Pierre told Bishop Strickland ‘there is no deposit of faith’

Terry Barber said that Christophe Pierre, Pope Francis’ apostolic nuncio to the US, told Bishop Strickland, ‘You need to stop talking about the deposit of faith. There is no deposit of faith.’



“Bishop Strickland communicated to me that … Pierre confronted [him] and said, ‘Look, the Holy Father is watching you. You need to stop talking about the deposit of faith. There is no deposit of faith.’”

“Well, you can imagine how shocking that is to hear a nuncio say there’s no deposit of faith, because if you don’t believe in the deposit of faith, you’re not Catholic,” continued Barber. “That’s not just my opinion. That’s the Church teaching.”
This is difficult to believe. If this actually happened as reported, it is difficult to hear.

The "Deposit of the Faith" is a common term, in every language spoken by the Universal Church. This phrase is used in the Documents of Vatican II (Dei Verbum) devoted to our foundational matter.
There are several common synonyms:
"Apostolic Teaching" or "The Teaching of the Apostles"
"Sacred Tradition"
"Scripture and Tradition"

Whatever you call it, it is the bedrock foundation of Apostolic Faith. The Church cannot add to it, nor take away from it. Any attempts to do so by bishops (including the Pope) "undermine" the foundations.

We need to be very scrupulous about preserving the Deposit of Faith. The Orthodox scold the Western Apostolic Church even for defining things like "Original Sin" a bit too firmly.

But the real danger is in bowing to the World in matters of morality and sin. Jesus spoke clearly against serial polygamy, asserting that covenant marriage is from God and must be respected. Moses and St. Paul spoke clearly against L-gibbity stuff. Thus the Church has no authority to baptize those sins, much less encourage them to be widely accepted.

The denial of the Latin Mass is another concern. The worship that fed the hearts of Catholics for centuries and which has re-kindled devotion in a new generation is being tyrannically suppressed again.... and this time, there is not even enough respect for the faithful to explain why it must be suppressed.

I'm not a Latin Mass guy myself, but I can't deny the blessed fruit growing in the families who appreciate praying more closely with the Early Church. Paragraph 84 in the CCC (quoted below) respects how our ancient worship brings us in communion with the generations before us, being part of the Deposit of the Faith.
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church

84 The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46

The Magisterium of the Church

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

[...]

I. MORAL LIFE AND THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH

2032 The Church, the "pillar and bulwark of the truth," "has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles to announce the saving truth."74 "To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order, and to make judgments on any human affairs to the extent that they are required by the fundamental rights of the human person or the salvation of souls."75

2033 The Magisterium of the Pastors of the Church in moral matters is ordinarily exercised in catechesis and preaching, with the help of the works of theologians and spiritual authors. Thus from generation to generation, under the aegis and vigilance of the pastors, the "deposit" of Christian moral teaching has been handed on, a deposit composed of a characteristic body of rules, commandments, and virtues proceeding from faith in Christ and animated by charity. Alongside the Creed and the Our Father, the basis for this catechesis has traditionally been the Decalogue which sets out the principles of moral life valid for all men.

2034 The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are "authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice."76 The ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.
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Post by Hovannes »

I have to wonder what the Papal Nuncio Cardinal Pierre admits to telling Bishop Strickland?
I'd expect a Papal Nuncio to be a straight shooter, so has anyone bothered to ask him?
What about Terry Barber? I'd think he'd check with Cardinal Pierre (not Pierre Delecto) before publishing such an obviously contentious news item.
Just sayin'
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 10:44 I have to wonder what the Papal Nuncio Cardinal Pierre admits to telling Bishop Strickland?
I'd expect a Papal Nuncio to be a straight shooter, so has anyone bothered to ask him?
What about Terry Barber? I'd think he'd check with Cardinal Pierre (not Pierre Delecto) before publishing such an obviously contentious news item.
Just sayin'
If he said anything of the sort, I imagine that he prolly said something like, "There's no Deposit of Faith in the sense you [i.e. Bp. Strickland's] need there to be in order to save yer bacon."

Which would be exactly correct. There's no Deposit of Faith — no View-from-Nowhere or God's-Eye View — which Strickland can play as a trump-card over-&-against the fundamental authority of Pope Francis.

♠️♥️♦️♣️🃏


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Post by Del »

Wosbald wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 16:20 +JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 10:44 I have to wonder what the Papal Nuncio Cardinal Pierre admits to telling Bishop Strickland?
I'd expect a Papal Nuncio to be a straight shooter, so has anyone bothered to ask him?
What about Terry Barber? I'd think he'd check with Cardinal Pierre (not Pierre Delecto) before publishing such an obviously contentious news item.
Just sayin'
If he said anything of the sort, I imagine that he prolly said something like, "There's no Deposit of Faith in the sense you [i.e. Bp. Strickland's] need there to be in order to save yer bacon."

Which would be exactly correct. There's no Deposit of Faith — no View-from-Nowhere or God's-Eye View — which Strickland can play as a trump-card over-&-against the fundamental authority of Pope Francis.

♠️♥️♦️♣️🃏
This would certainly be the position of Pope Francis, his allies (such as perhaps Cardinal nuncio), guys like Wosbald, and Satan himself.

On the other hand, there is a very real, solid, sturdy, and authoritative body of knowledge and revelation which we all call "The Deposit of the Faith." Bishops are called to teach and defend it. If Pope Francis is abusing his authority -- as he seems so apparently -- then he will be called out for it. The situation is a scandal and that is already obvious to everyone, so there really isn't any harm in the Holy Spirit's using a few brave bishops to defend the truth of faith.

Bishop Strickland follows in the footsteps of St. John Fisher.
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Post by Hovannes »

Wosbald wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 16:20 +JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 10:44 I have to wonder what the Papal Nuncio Cardinal Pierre admits to telling Bishop Strickland?
I'd expect a Papal Nuncio to be a straight shooter, so has anyone bothered to ask him?
What about Terry Barber? I'd think he'd check with Cardinal Pierre (not Pierre Delecto) before publishing such an obviously contentious news item.
Just sayin'
If he said anything of the sort, I imagine that he prolly said something like, "There's no Deposit of Faith in the sense you [i.e. Bp. Strickland's] need there to be in order to save yer bacon."

IOW, there's no Deposit of Faith — no View-from-Nowhere or God's-Eye View — which Strickland can play as a trump-card over-&-against the fundamental authority of Pope Francis.

♠️♥️♦️♣️🃏
Except that what is the deposit of faith has been well defined. What exactly Cardinal Christophe Pierre said, if he said anything to Bishop Strickland, needs to be confirmed by Cardinal Pierre or a first hand witness.
I would expect the Papal Nuncio to make a statement to clarify either way the alleged scandal Terry Barber reported.
Unless he simply doesn't care, like with Francis' famous Dubia scandal.
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 16:53Except that what is the deposit of faith has been well defined. …
It has?

There's no Dogma called "The Deposit of Faith".

There's no entry "The Deposit of Faith" on the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia. In one entry, the Encyclopedia simply equates The Deposit of Faith with "The Christian Revelation".

There's no Article in the Creed, "I believe in The Deposit of Faith". It would be as nonsensical (i.e. tautological/redundant) an Article as "I believe in The Christian Revelation".

A Well-Worn Term doesn't necessarily equate to a Well-Defined Term.

:techie-studyingbrown:


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Post by Hovannes »

Wosbald wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 17:21 +JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 16:53Except that what is the deposit of faith has been well defined. …
It has?

There's no Dogma called "The Deposit of Faith".

There's no entry "The Deposit of Faith" on the 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia. In one entry, the Encyclopedia simply equates The Deposit of Faith with "The Christian Revelation".

There's no Article in the Creed, "I believe in The Deposit of Faith". It would be as nonsensical (i.e. tautological/redundant) an Article as "I believe in The Christian Revelation".

A Well-Worn Term doesn't necessarily equate to a Well-Defined Term.

:techie-studyingbrown:
Gospels?? Scripture?? Creed?? Church Councils?? The Deposit of Faith sounds more accurate than say, A bunch of stuff the Church believes
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hovannes wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 19:59Gospels?? Scripture?? Creed?? Church Councils?? The Deposit of Faith sounds more accurate than say, A bunch of stuff the Church believes
Tru enuf.

But taken in that sense, Francis' authentic magisterium, itself, forms part of The Deposit of Faith.

How could Bp. Strickland hope to pit one facet of The Deposit of Faith against another facet? That's like pitting Scripture against Church Councils. We've seen where that goes.

As I said, there's no Deposit of Faith in the sense Bp. Strickland needs there to be in order to save his bacon.

🥓


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